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Old 05-07-2015, 05:18 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 871,165 times
Reputation: 1638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
This is what defense attorneys are supposed to do. And if the blame does indeed lie with the "victim" then it is absolutely the defense lawyer's responsibility to point that out to the court. It's not a question of "ethics". It's a matter at getting to the truth.

Let us not forget, there is a judge in the court room. If any lawyer goes too far, breaks a real ethics rule, etc. then the judge will call them out on it. That is why they are there.

Did you purposely omit the lie part I mentioned?

That is what I was speaking on. An officer of the court, a lawyer should know better to make up lies or allow their client to lie. Once upon a time that was frowned upon.

yes, a judge reins them in but once it's said, you can't unring that bell.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:23 PM
 
625 posts, read 623,698 times
Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
There's is one huge difference, unlike cops and prosecutors, defense attorneys have to get up every day and with full knowledge of what there client has done, stand before a judge and jury and do your best to defend people who have done the most evil things with dispassion and professionalism.
I thought it was supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty?" … surely that would help a little, at least in some cases.

Otherwise, their motto would have to be "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:26 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,294,472 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Many our most fundamental rights are specifically concerned with rights of the accused. Everyday in some court room defense attorneys, most of whom are underpaid and overworked, make sure that the accused are afforded the full protection of those rights.

I was thinking about this after reading another story about the Boston Bombing case and how attorney's Judy Clarke, David Bruck, and William Fick go into court day in and day out to defend someone who I personally think is indefensible, just because the our Constitution essentially guarantees that a defendant has a right to counsel to insure that their rights are protected.

In light of all the back and forth about the Constitution, I can think of no group of people more dedicated to it.


I couldn't agree more. People lambaste defense attorneys yet few stop to think what our country would look like without them. The onus should always be on the state to prove its case and it should be a heavy burden. I think defense attorneys do a good job of keeping the justice system in check, as much as can be anyway.
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:38 AM
 
11,755 posts, read 7,112,566 times
Reputation: 8011
Defense lawyers are scums . . . . until you (or your family) need one. Then your tune will change real quick.

What if you are falsely accused of a crime you did not commit? It happens a lot, and that's a proven fact. Are you going to represent yourself pro se and go down in flames and take the maximum? Enjoy playing hide the sausage with Ramon? Really.

Mick
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:48 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,611,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amythyst View Post
Did you purposely omit the lie part I mentioned?
I did because I don't respond to pure nonsense. It takes care of itself.

A good defense lawyer does not use such tactics. If they do, and the lie is caught, not only do they suffer consequences but their client's case is damaged as well. Bad defense lawyers don't last long.
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:57 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 871,165 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I did because I don't respond to pure nonsense. It takes care of itself.

A good defense lawyer does not use such tactics. If they do, and the lie is caught, not only do they suffer consequences but their client's case is damaged as well. Bad defense lawyers don't last long.
Is Baez one or Nurmi, Willmott?

Please there are many defense attorney's who will do whatever it takes to get an inherently guilty person walk free under the guise of a good defense.
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Old 05-08-2015, 08:15 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,292,176 times
Reputation: 45726
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Many our most fundamental rights are specifically concerned with rights of the accused. Everyday in some court room defense attorneys, most of whom are underpaid and overworked, make sure that the accused are afforded the full protection of those rights.

I was thinking about this after reading another story about the Boston Bombing case and how attorney's Judy Clarke, David Bruck, and William Fick go into court day in and day out to defend someone who I personally think is indefensible, just because the our Constitution essentially guarantees that a defendant has a right to counsel to insure that their rights are protected.

In light of all the back and forth about the Constitution, I can think of no group of people more dedicated to it.
In the early years of my law practice, I did a certain amount of criminal defense work. It never included those accused of rape or murder. I did defend someone in a bank robbery case once.

In any event, I long ago gave up criminal defense work. My experiences have caused me to make a number of observations that I think are highly relevant:

1. The public has been largely hoodwinked into believing that the prosecution and the police are "the good guys". This is an unfortunate stereotype for a country that holds as a principal, "a person is innocent until proven guilty". Many people who serve on juries believe that most, if not all, criminal defendants are guilty or they wouldn't be on trial in the first place. It makes the job of the criminal defense attorney very difficult and, in my view, leads to many wrongful convictions.

2. Many, if not most judicial appointments are made from the ranks of criminal prosecutors. I have seen it again and again. I remember there was a particularly gifted criminal defense attorney in my area who was well respected by virtually everyone in the bar. His application to be a judge was repeatedly turned down. He finally did get an appointment--as a juvenile judge--when he was almost sixty years old. On the other hand, I see many young prosecutors who are not only nominated to the bench, but than promoted to the Court of Appeals or the state Supreme Court. One would have to be blind not to see the huge advantage into going into the prosecutor's office, instead of being a criminal defense attorney.

3. Many in the public believe criminal defense attorneys make huge fortunes defending guilty people and "getting them off". Those people should go the public defender's office (which handles about 90% of the criminal defense work in most localities) and find out just how low the salaries really are. There are a handful of prominent criminal defense attorneys who do make large sums of money. However, they do it representing a small number of clients who can afford to pay generously for their services.

4. One major reason I shun criminal defense work is the low remuneration involved. The real money to be made in private legal practice is doing civil, not criminal work. A second major reason is that I don't want the baggage that comes along with the poor (and generally unfair) image that much of the public has about criminal defense attorneys.

5. Criminal defense attorneys perform a valuable and often thankless task for society. In this regard, a criminal defense attorney is no less important than a soldier serving the nation, defending us from enemies abroad.

6. The only criminal defense attorney I have a real problem with is the one who you would find repeatedly defending organized criminals. Everyone charged with a crime is entitled to a defense. However, there are a handful of attorneys who make their living repeatedly defending mafioso and drug cartels. That bothers even me.
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