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correct. the respondents can say anything they want, whether it's factual or not. that's not grounded in reality in the slightest.
I'll trust the government over you. The survey is legitimate.
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no it isn't. I already went through in detail why it's not, as have others.
I'm making post after post addressing what others have said about it. At this point. Look at what I said to them. This is tiring. I want to respond to people who are actually worth responding to.
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ok. since white people comprise the vast majority of the population, that shouldn't surprise you.
It doesn't. However, this should feed into negative perceptions about white students with guns, but it doesn't.
how do we know white people carry around weapons more? what kind of weapons? do you consider pocketknives weapons? if they don't use these 'weapons' why should we fear them?
If you have more weapons, you are at risk for using these weapons. You can't even carrying pocket knives to school.
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him making an excellent point doesn't make him a racist, nor does it make me a troll.
Yeah..... i'm not responding to you anymore. Scratch explaining the drug user part, you're not worth my time.
Are you arguging that stereotypes are ture???????????? I can't believe an adult would think like this.
How do you think stereotypes come into existence? Because people observe a given characteristic being exhibited by more than a small number of a given group, with enough regularity that it does not seem surprising to many people if they happen to observe a member of that group exhibiting that characteristic.
Anyone with a lick of sense knows that stereotypes are, at best, extremely broad generalizations. For any group you can name, the number of individuals within that group who defy their stereotypes will greatly exceed the number who meet them. But that doesn't change the underlying reality that more than a few members of the group will meet their stereotype, to one degree or another.
Thus, for example, the unfortunate stereotype that young black men are dangerous. I think it's safe to say that the majority of young black men are not out there stealing and rioting and assaulting others. But it is indisputable that more than a few such people do indeed engage in these activities, and statistics show that this group causes trouble in numbers greatly disproportionate to their share of the overall population. Thus, this characteristic is applied to the entire group, in the minds of many.
Agreed. But it is also a known fact that mass shootings by white people occur at just a teeny tiny fraction of the rate that random street violence committed by black people does.
It can't be argued about weapons doing more damage more quickly, and the media has done its job in drumming up paranoia about mass shooitngs, but eh, I lost the heart for this losing argument. I was just trying to explain how perception is the primary factor for blacks being seen as dangerous, and how this doesn't seem to apply for whites, despite the media constantly reporting the mass shootings. Perhaps it is because they're considered monsters and not representative of whites, while blacks don't get a pass, but that's another argument for another time.
Here's what you just said: data shows that black people commit more crimes relative to whites and Asians; therefore we should be more worried about dangerous white people. Are you not at all seeing the logical fallacy here?[/quote] You're misrepresenting me. I included however to show the discrepancy in opinion. A behavior of a few black criminals reflect on overall perception of black students. The behavior of a few white criminals has no bearing on overall opinions of white students. With that said, i'm not arguing this point anymore. You guys win, or however you take it.
If you have more weapons, you are at risk for using these weapons.
Says who? Even police officers -- who carry guns every day and are trained and authorized to use them -- can often go their entire careers without even once firing them at a suspect.
Perhaps you're saying that people who have guns are more likely to use them than people who don't. But by that same logic, people who have water bottles are more likely to drink them than people who don't.
How do you think stereotypes come into existence? Because people observe a given characteristic being exhibited by more than a small number of a given group, with enough regularity that it does not seem surprising to many people if they happen to observe a member of that group exhibiting that characteristic.
You're taking logic to something completely illogical. Stereotypes are borne from anecdotes which people, often infused with confirmation bias, seek to back up using the first bit of evidence they find. The current stereotypes is that their are alot of lazy people in this country. However, we worked nearly five hundreds hours more a year on average then your typical German. What caused this to be born? Ignorance and anecdotes, which people gladly want to get fed by information to support it.
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Anyone with a lick of sense knows that stereotypes are, at best, extremely broad generalizations. For any group you can name, the number of individuals within that group who defy their stereotypes will greatly exceed the number who meet them. But that doesn't change the underlying reality that more than a few members of the group will meet their stereotype, to one degree or another.
What is "more than a few"? Stereotypes are based on cognitive bias, not any source of truth. Implying it is based on some "underlying reality" is giving it more credit then it deserves.
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Thus, for example, the unfortunate stereotype that young black men are dangerous. I think it's safe to say that the majority of young black men are not out there stealing and rioting and assaulting others. But it is indisputable that more than a few such people do indeed engage in these activities, and statistics show that this group causes trouble in numbers greatly disproportionate to their share of the overall population. Thus, this characteristic is applied to the entire group, in the minds of many.
When you start controlling for factors such as poverty and location, black youths, perform on par with Asians and whites. The stereotype is completely wrong, as it fail to recognize these factors.
Says who? Even police officers -- who carry guns every day and are trained and authorized to use them -- can often go their entire careers without even once firing them at a suspect.
Unfortunately, they're killing 2 us citizens a day on average. Nowadays you can't even call them to help people who are attempting suicide
Perhaps you're saying that people who have guns are more likely to use them than people who don't. But by that same logic, people who have water bottles are more likely to drink them than people who don't.
Is this not the truth? Can drink or shoot what you don't have.
From the article: "The first installments in #WhiteLiesMatter, a hashtag series I intend to post regularly. The series will debunk, with links embedded, various right-wing racist claims about people of color.”
While the writing is questionable, the information is valuable, especially since people don't seem to take notice the improvements of the black community. I hope this campaign bring forth some positive results.
See bolded. I just want you to help me understand what "right wing" has to do with anything. The implication is left wing whites don't make racist claims.
So which is the racist attitude here?:
Able bodied blacks on welfare should be cut off after a short period, and should be required to work to support themselves.
or
Blacks must have welfare because the system keeps them down, and they are not capable of competing with other races because of the history of slavery.
And which is the racist attitude here?:
Black kids should only be admitted to colleges they qualify for and can successfully compete in to ensure graduation and success at completing their degree.
or
We must have diversity quotas at [Harvard, Yale, MIT etc.] to ensure our student body is exposed to a wide variety of cultures and ethnic backgrounds, so we adjust entrance standards for unqualified minority students to get the right racial and ethnic mix, but then either flunk them out or don't hold them to the same academic standards, because they can't really compete.
Whether you like George Bush or not, he had it exactly right when he identified "the soft bigotry of low expectations."
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Originally Posted by smart-dumb-kid
So a self reporting poll is based on people contributing their opinions, yet it isn't grounded in reality? More importantly factiod B is related to Lie A.
Was stumped on this one for awhile, but I think I can give a satisfactory response. It is a known facts that most of the mass shootings in this country are performed by white people. It is also a known fact that white people are more likely to carry drugs. Seems irrelevant at first, but let's tie this in to the current argument. Data shows that black people commit more crime relative to whites and Asians, especially the youth. This stigma understandably transfers to the youth in schools. However, knowing what we know about white people, why isn't skepticism of the violence of white youth higher when they carry around weapons more and are known in the media to use them? Drug users aren't known to be the nicest people ever, and thus this should negatively impact how safe white students appear to be but it doesn't. There is an obvious discrepancy here...
It is also a know fact that the white mass shooters were in every case mentally ill, and either had no political leanings or leftist political leanings. Again, please explain what "right wing" has to do with racist claims or violent tendencies - both are more commonly associated with movements on the left of the political spectrum.
If we disagree about the political solution to a problem in our society (racism, say, and how best to eliminate barriers for those who are/were discriminated against), that doesn't make one political view racist, and the other morally upright, it means we disagree about the best way to address the issue and solve the problem.
An honest disagreement is not a lie, it's a disagreement. Bigotry is not a right wing only phenomenon, and the simple fact that one is right wing, does not make one a bigot.
Yay, race. That's a topic that never comes up here.
If Tom/Tim/clean cut Michael Moore actually cared about anything other than lining his pocket, he wouldn't be shoving a bunch of divisive smoke and mirrors nonsense down our throats.
I would call him an idiot for doing it, but that would be applying the title in the wrong place. Plenty of people seem to be lapping it up and asking for more.
I think certain areas, say New England & the Rocky Mountain States, should be white only as well as areas in each state. Other areas should be black only. People could then have a real choice if they want to live without race coming up every day and having fear of another race.
The statistic used is not a statistic about carrying dangerous weapons, much less dangerous weapons in school, though. It reflects absolutely nothing about the proportion at which students are armed. That's the problem with that tweet. It makes an assumption that the linked study clearly shows is not valid.
Let's see a meaningful stat such as who used the weapons more often for criminal activity. Hunting is not a criminal activity.
Last edited by sspistol; 06-05-2015 at 09:42 AM..
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