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No one said you couldn't fly that flag from your truck or front yard. It simply doesn't belong on a state building. The USA flag and the state flag belong there. Not the flag of a nation that no longer exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Hmmm.....
Did you even research the "Republic of California" before you went all "hmmm"on us?
After the rebels won a few minor skirmishes with Mexican forces, Fremont officially took command of the “Bear Flaggers” and occupied the unguarded presidio of San Francisco on July 1. Six days later, Fremont learned that American forces under Commodore John D. Sloat had taken Monterey without a fight and officially raised the American flag over California. Since the ultimate goal of the Bear Flaggers was to make California part of the U.S., they now saw little reason to preserve their “government.” Three weeks after it had been proclaimed, the California Republic quietly faded away. Ironically, the Bear Flag itself proved far more enduring than the republic it represented: it became the official state flag when California joined the union in 1850.
I'm a member from across the pond watching this furore. As a yearly visitor to the states for the last 20 plus years and especially the southern states or as a idiotic p.c.poster on another c.d state forum called them "the lower states" I feel that removing the flag on a govt buildings would be a good move to try to keep the peace. But,keep flying the flag on your garden ground,truck.car,t-shirt.cap etc.You cannot rewrite history whether it is good or bad. History is history.It's up to us to learn from it.
I'm a member from across the pond watching this furore. As a yearly visitor to the states for the last 20 plus years and especially the southern states or as a idiotic p.c.poster on another c.d state forum called them "the lower states" I feel that removing the flag on a govt buildings would be a good move to try to keep the peace. But,keep flying the flag on your garden ground,truck.car,t-shirt.cap etc.You cannot rewrite history whether it is good or bad. History is history.It's up to us to learn from it.
Does Scotland fly it's own flag as a sign of Unity, Independence and Rebellion to the crown?
Many if not most Southerners (like myself) have strong ties and roots to Scotland.
We inherited your pride of country and rebellious spirit for independence. (good thing)
That's what the Southern Flag stands for, not slavery or hate.
Would you like England to tell you your Flag stands for hate due to your (Civil) Wars with the English?
Like Scotland, we do not rewrite history but acknowledge and recognize that proud history.
Does Scotland fly it's own flag as a sign of Unity, Independence and Rebellion to the crown?
Many if not most Southerners (like myself) have strong ties and roots to Scotland.
We inherited your pride of country and rebellious spirit for independence. (good thing)
That's what the Southern Flag stands for, not slavery or hate.
Would you like England to tell you your Flag stands for hate due to your (Civil) Wars with the English?
Like Scotland, we do not rewrite history but acknowledge and recognize that proud history.
Rakin, that confederate battle flag has stood for racism and white supremacy since the 40's:
"So, when did the flag explode into prominence? It was during the struggle for civil rights for black Americans, in the middle of the 20th century. The first burst may have been in 1948. South Carolina politician Strom Thurmond ran for president under the newly founded States Rights Democratic Party, also known as the Dixiecrats. The party's purpose was clear: "We stand for the segregation of the races," said Article 4 of its platform."
And by all means, fly your Scottish flag, and your Confederate flag all you want, put them on your porch, or on your pickup truck if you like. I only take umbrage when a branch of Government decides that it is appropriate to adorn public property with that atrocity.
I never said it was the cause of the tragedy. I said it took a tragedy for people to start talking about it. And I never once said it would prevent future tragedies. The question was "Why did it take a national tragedy to put this in the national conscious"?
And as for taking cues from politicians, my mind was made up about the Confederate flag long before politicians were talking about it. It was just a matter of time.
Good, you made up your mind on your own. I respect that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Comparing banning alcohol to taking down the Confederate flag from a state public building are not comparable, so quit with the straw man argument. Alcoholics made the choice to drink themselves into oblivion, therefore, they became alcoholics. The Confederate cause, on the other hand, is far different. Slaves did not get any say in the Confederate cause. Alcoholics have more of a say when they chose to drink. Junk food junkies have a say when they choose to eat poorly. Slaves didn't have a say.
You misunderstood the simple analogy I was trying to make. It had nothing to do about physically drinking alcohol/making that choice. Or eating junk food for that matter. The point is having alcohol in plain site, seeing the physical bottle, offending some people who have been harmed in the past by it(lost love one in a drunk driving, former child with alcoholic parents where the was violence in the house, etc.). The symbol of the bottle of alcohol. In both cases, the actual bottles in view bringing back bad memories to some, just like some are saying about the confederate flag that's in view causes bad memories/feelings for some. So now that you understand what I'm trying to say with my analogy, my question still remains.....who decides what is offensive and who decides/who has the power to ban it? Different things mean different things to different people. We'll be banning everything eventually potentially as everyone is offended by something. And each one of us has a different version of something in what it means to us. I'm sure there are things I find offensive that you don't and vice versa.....should I be the judge/jury and say this/that symbol, color, number, whatever be banned because it's offensive to me but you think it's represents something different altogether? Slippery slope time.
You misunderstood the simple analogy I was trying to make. It had nothing to do about physically drinking alcohol/making that choice. Or eating junk food for that matter. The point is having alcohol in plain site, seeing the physical bottle, offending some people who have been harmed in the past by it(lost love one in a drunk driving, former child with alcoholic parents where the was violence in the house, etc.). The symbol of the bottle of alcohol. In both cases, the actual bottles in view bringing back bad memories to some, just like some are saying about the confederate flag that's in view causes bad memories/feelings for some. So now that you understand what I'm trying to say with my analogy, my question still remains.....who decides what is offensive and who decides/who has the power to ban it? Different things mean different things to different people. We'll be banning everything eventually potentially as everyone is offended by something. And each one of us has a different version of something in what it means to us. I'm sure there are things I find offensive that you don't and vice versa.....should I be the judge/jury and say this/that symbol, color, number, whatever be banned because it's offensive to me but you think it's represents something different altogether? Slippery slope time.
Nobody is proposing "banning" the confederate flag. The issue is simply whether it should be flown over public property, and the obvious answer is no.
To use your analogy, nobody is talking about banning alcohol. But would it be appropriate to fly a flag symbolizing alcoholism or drunk driving over public property? Again the obvious answer is no.
If folks want to hoist such flags on their own property that's their business.
Nobody is proposing "banning" the confederate flag. The issue is simply whether it should be flown over public property, and the obvious answer is no.
To use your analogy, nobody is talking about banning alcohol. But would it be appropriate to fly a flag symbolizing alcoholism or drunk driving over public property? Again the obvious answer is no.
If folks want to hoist such flags on their own property that's their business.
Yes, we are on topic....public property. The answer is obvious to you it should be banned. Others disagree. My question is....who decides and on what grounds? And who's the judge/jury to decide?
I was drawing a hypothetical....where does it all stop and who decides? You can't see someone having a party at a public office building where there's alcohol being served and someone coming up and saying "alcohol shouldn't be served here as it offends me just looking at it"? I certainly can. You apparently haven't been reading much in the news what people get offended about today and the steps taken to pacify them. Happens all the time these days from various symbols/statements on shirts and way beyond this.
As for your attitude about no one is calling on banning alcohol, that's the sheep/close your eye mentality that exists out there. Quick internet searches will help educate:
I'm not saying it's probably/possible, but someone/somewhere is always offended about something and wants something to be banned for reasons that they think are 100% valid and all should fall into that micro-view. I can't explain this any clearer.
And yes, again, I understand your view....public property display of Confederate flag bad, Private property display is up to the individual. Got it. Me Me Me. I'm trying to think a little gray/beyond the "me me me" part. I know it's very confusing for some to be a bit more objective/seeing things in a broader context beyond themselves/the specific topic at hand, the confederate flag.
Many of the responses here reminds me of the movie "Spinal Tap" where Nigel was being interviewed about his amp going to 11. No matter what question they asked of Nigel, he kept answering "but this one goes to 11".
Does Scotland fly it's own flag as a sign of Unity, Independence and Rebellion to the crown?
Many if not most Southerners (like myself) have strong ties and roots to Scotland.
We inherited your pride of country and rebellious spirit for independence. (good thing)
That's what the Southern Flag stands for, not slavery or hate.
Would you like England to tell you your Flag stands for hate due to your (Civil) Wars with the English?
Like Scotland, we do not rewrite history but acknowledge and recognize that proud history.
Could not have put it better myself.the saltire and the battle flag are"cut from the same cloth"please excuse the pun.i must admit i feel more affinity in the southern states.although to be fair i have enjoyed all the 37 states i have visited so far.
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