As some worry and wring their hands over the Confederate Flag

[Mack Knife]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Remind me again which state is flying the ISIS battle flag at their capitol and which has incorporated the same into their state flag?

What many people in other countries also probably asked themselves.

Wake up, we sent soldiers to die where that ISIS battle flag now flies.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by Mack Knife

What many people in other countries also probably asked themselves.

Wake up, we sent soldiers to die where that ISIS battle flag now flies.

If I want to be snarky and turn that around, I would point out that hundreds of thousands of Americans died to bring down the Confederate flag and we still let it fly...

I do understand your point though. One could argue that the deeper lesson here may be that sending the soldiers there to die turned out to not be a very good idea and/or that removing our soldiers from harm's way was not a very good idea. There is obviously a power vaccuum that was created.

I'm no fan of ISIS or Islamic extremism, but short of sending tens of thousands of troops back over there and piling up even more body bags and then keeping a permanent presence there...what are we going to do?

[Mack Knife]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

If I want to be snarky and turn that around, I would point out that hundreds of thousands of Americans died to bring down the Confederate flag and we still let it fly...

I do understand your point though. One could argue that the deeper lesson here may be that sending the soldiers there to die turned out to not be a very good idea and/or that removing our soldiers from harm's way was not a very good idea. There is obviously a power vaccuum that was created.

I'm no fan of ISIS or Islamic extremism, but short of sending tens of thousands of troops back over there and piling up even more body bags and then keeping a permanent presence there...what are we going to do?

Here is the thing about the Confederate Flag. Not all who died (the hundreds of thousands) did so to support the idea of slavery. The idea that the Confederate Flag is synonymous or represents slavery is nothing less than hijacking that symbol. In this day and age it seem anything someone doesn't like something they just attribute something to a symbol and then want to take out their anger on that symbol. Is anything better today or will it be tomorrow because a flag was taken down? Isn't that elevating that flag to something it is not?

If flags are so important, then why is it okay to burn the one of the USA? Free speech? Then that must also apply to the Confederate flag, it too is a representation of free speech.

There is absolutely no consideration to those who died fighting under the Confederate flag and most of them didn't have slaves and weren't fighting for any right to keep slaves either. What happen was that an instigation on a massive scale was started, not to make anything better but to demonize a symbol, a flag that for many had less to do with slavery than human trafficking operations that run to this day, yes, in the USA and for which no one seems to say a thing.

We have human trafficking and if they were black, would be called slaves crossing our borders every day yet we as a country say little and do less. Yet we spend the attention of the entire country to deal with the Confederate Flag. See any black slaves in the USA lately?

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by Mack Knife

Here is the thing about the Confederate Flag. Not all who died (the hundreds of thousands) did so to support the idea of slavery. The idea that the Confederate Flag is synonymous or represents slavery is nothing less than hijacking that symbol. In this day and age it seem anything someone doesn't like something they just attribute something to a symbol and then want to take out their anger on that symbol. Is anything better today or will it be tomorrow because a flag was taken down? Isn't that elevating that flag to something it is not?

If flags are so important, then why is it okay to burn the one of the USA? Free speech? Then that must also apply to the Confederate flag, it too is a representation of free speech.

There is absolutely no consideration to those who died fighting under the Confederate flag and most of them didn't have slaves and weren't fighting for any right to keep slaves either. What happen was that an instigation on a massive scale was started, not to make anything better but to demonize a symbol, a flag that for many had less to do with slavery than human trafficking operations that run to this day, yes, in the USA and for which no one seems to say a thing.

We have human trafficking and if they were black, would be called slaves crossing our borders every day yet we as a country say little and do less. Yet we spend the attention of the entire country to deal with the Confederate Flag. See any black slaves in the USA lately?

While it is absolutely true that different people fight a war for different reasons, when it comes to the official reasons stated by the governments and representative bodies of the Confederacy, it had everything to do with slavery. From the Declaration of Secession for Mississippi...

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

Among the first acts of the Confederacy was to establish a Federal government whose stated mission was to preserve the institution of slavery. What is being misinterpreted?

That flag was the battle flag of an army that fought a rebellion against the United States in order to establish a nation dedicated entirely to the preservation and expansion of slavery. I fail to see exactly what we should honor about the men who died under that flag.

Beyond that, that flag became a rallying symbol for white supremacists in the south during the Civil Rights Movement and desegregation. That flag flew at the SC Statehouse as a protest AGAINST equal rights for African-Americans. It may be a symbol of southern heritage and culture to some, but it was used by others as a symbol of white supremacy and opposition to equality. Look at images of the March on Selma. The black "protesters" are carrying American flags. The white "anti-protesters" are lining the streets and waving Confederate flags. The police officers beating marchers have Confederate flags on their riot helmets.

Just for the record, no one has banned the Confederate flag. You are free to fly it however you wish. What they did do was remove it from a government building. Flags are symbols of speech and whether or not you saw the flag as a symbol of hate, it was for many and had no place flying on a government building. Especially when the government that put it there, did so while openly stating it was a symbol of resistance against forced integration and civil rights.

[roddma]

I can see many are misinformed about history on here. A large % of the US never gave a hoot about minorities in 1861, not Lincoln either. If you think they lived some kind of fantasy in other regions, after being freed, you have a screw loose. Maybe the US flag offends Native Americans who got ran off their land.