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It seems to me that traffic stops are no longer just about the traffic violation but have become a vehicle (no pun intended) to catch people in the act of something, anything.
This puts way too much pressure on all parties. The cops to pull of some heroic capture of a deadly menace and the citizen to be defensive and fear overreach.
It puts cops lives in danger and makes them more aggressive. It makes the perpetrators more aggressive and puts the general public in danger when they take of and chases ensue or gun battles erupt. Traffic cops should be traffic cops and leave the investigating to the detectives and others trained to do it. Hopefully with minimal loss of innocent life and due process being the end objective.
Now, not only is the driver dead, and his family ruined, but the cop's life is over, his family is devastated, and the two cops with him who allegedly lied to cover up the truth here are also in serious trouble and their lives ruined.
I think there needs to be a serious overhaul of the traffic stop and its purpose.
The problem, if that is the correct word, is that an "ordinary traffic stop" all too often involves the stop of someone involved in or wanted for something much more deadly. I don't know what the statistics of that might be, but it's often enough to warrant consideration.
I have heard from a police officer that the first thing they attempt to do is establish the fact of their dominance of the situation, often by what might seem like an inane demand--like "put out your cigarette." The purpose: You blink, now you both know who is in control. You don't blink...the situation is left in question.
I have also heard from police officers that they may very well continue to ask questions for the purpose of probing for any actual crime or reason to suspect there is a crime.
At the same time, there is also reason to be afraid when a police officer tells you "step out of the car." If he tells you "get out of the car," it's not likely to end with "You can get back into your car, have a nice day." It's pretty much guaranteed that if he wants you out of the car, your life is going to become immediately more complicated, and a lot of people don't react well to that fear.
I don't like this current situation in which a police officer has to be treated as though he was a grizzly bear that suddenly found you interesting. This is a situation in which both parties have some genuine and rational fear of their lives over something like a burned out tail light. I'm not sure how we got to this place.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 08-01-2015 at 11:43 AM..
1. Know the law below completely and print it out as I mentioned in the quick reference. 2. Don’t do or have on you anything illegal and lastly 3. Do not have anything that can be used to identify you on your person. Leave your wallet and ID in your car. You have no obligation to carry government ID in public. I say wallet because your credit/insurance/business cards have your name on them. If you want to carry money carry cash by itself. Also set the password on your cell phone so your contacts can’t be accessed.
Quote:
This one is for Ohio but almost every state is just about the same. This law outlines your legal responsibility to identify yourself aka “Stop and Identify.” The law is pretty straight forward. You are only required to verbally (no picture ID is needed) identify yourself (name, address and date of birth) IF 1. You’re suspected of a crime. 2. (a) Are witness to: a VIOLENT FELONY, (b) a FELONY that could have or did result in physical harm to a person or damage to property, or (c) a conspiracy/attempt to commit either (a) or (b).
That’s it, you only have to tell them your name, address and date of birth if you’re a suspect in the crime or witness to a violent felony or conspiracy. The best part is that part C explicitly states that not providing these details when the requirement is not met is not an arrestable offense AND you are not required to provide details about what you witnessed.
Is DUI a felony in Ohio? Really...
The Officer could legally have had Dubose exit the car at any point rather than arguing with him for two minutes about whether he had his driver's license in his possession. He was near enough to him that he should have smelled alcohol on him if he was DUI, but instead he just stands there waving his hands for two minutes asking him about his license and allowing him to open his glove box. So, when exactly would you have asked him to exit the car? By the way, for all the questioning about the driver's license - I never heard Tensing even ask him his name which strikes me as odd.
By the way, gin is not yellow; I even looked at Google images of the same brand "Barton" it's clear, so it could have been some other form of alcohol or even urine - but without the Officer at least opening it and smelling it there was no PC for an arrest for open container.
wrong Dubose apparently started the ignition, but the car does not move until he is shot, look at the incident in slow motion. The Officer opens the car door, Dubose pulls it closed, at the same time Dubose turns the ignition on but the car is not moving while Dubose's hand is on the ignition, Tensing reaches inside the car, grabs the driver's shoulder belt with his left hand and in his right hand you can see his weapon being held slightly above and to the right of the subject's head. The car is not moving until the shot is fired at which time Tensing is apparently thrown back from the recoil of the weapon. to see it more clearly, click on the gear icon and change speed to .25) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqKugc3ZVM
I can't see any way that this can be described as a justifiable homicide. My guess is the cop with plead to manslaughter rather than face a jury over this.
ty for that video. I didn't have an opinion on whether Tensing's arm was stuck in the car as the car was moving, whether Dubose made threatening motions with his hands, or did anything else that could cause Tensing to Reasonably fear imminent harm to justify deadly force. Sure looks like an unjustified shooting from what that video shows.
If she was restrained, how was she able to come after the cops with a knife?
Video was hard for me to see, so I didn't know race or sex of the cops.
I think you misunderstood my post. Of course I don't think killing her was cutting her slack. Even if my post was poorly worded (apparently) who would even think such a thing??? She was being 'cut slack' by not being handcuffed or put into a cell.
She was not restrained. Yes, if I remember correctly, she was down on the floor for a moment, but then let back up. Why? She certainly seemed hostile to me, but as I said the video was hard for me to see.
Yep, you didn't watch the entire video. If you had, you would have been able to see that she was successfully restrained by the cops SEVERAL times. For some inexplicable reason, they kept letting her get up, sit in a chair, etc.
In fact, the AA female police officer fired several shots at her - not sure exactly which shots killed her. But she was successfully restrained several times. Why on earth they didn't keep her restrained is a mystery to me.
Kristiana Coignard via facebookKristiana Coignard, 17, was fatally shot by police inside of a Longview police station Thursday after allegedly brandishing a knife at officers.
What are you talking about the 17 year old White Caucasian European Girl was trying to kill
three LEO with a BUTCHER KNIFE. The Male African American LEO tried to TASER her and it just
didn't WORK. The White Male LEO was CHARGED by the innocent 17 Years Old Girl at which
time HE SHOT HER , the FEMALE African American LEO Also shot her " because she was trying to KILL the white male LEO" if she would not have done that maybe her co-worker would be taking a DIRT NAP as we communicate.
She was successfully restrained by the police officers SEVERAL times and for some reason they would let her get back up, sit in a chair, etc. This all took place over 25 minutes. Terribly mishandled situation.
And are you telling me that THREE POLICE OFFICERS can't successfully restrain a 17 year old girl who weighs about 120 pounds over the course of 25 minutes - during which time they have her actually restrained several times but then inexplicably let her get loose again? WHAT THE HECK.
She was seriously mentally ill though, and on meds for it - she had been for years. She had tried to commit suicide several times already.
She was successfully restrained by the police officers SEVERAL times and for some reason they would let her get back up, sit in a chair, etc. This all took place over 25 minutes. Terribly mishandled situation.
And are you telling me that THREE POLICE OFFICERS can't successfully restrain a 17 year old girl who weighs about 120 pounds over the course of 25 minutes - during which time they have her actually restrained several times but then inexplicably let her get loose again? WHAT THE HECK.
She was seriously mentally ill though, and on meds for it - she had been for years. She had tried to commit suicide several times already.
Sad case all the way around.
I bolded the phrasing that's causing the problem with your description of that case.
The cops certainly Could have kept the girl restrained. For reasons that I never understood, they Chose not to.
(A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.[/i]
There is nothing in that statute that requires that you always carry an ID, you said you were an Ohio cop? Ohio Russia perhaps? Because NO state requires that a person carry a valid form of ID at all times
did you notice that the vehicle did not move until the victim was shot? That's why he was arrested. The cop claimed the car was moving and he was afraid he would be sucked under it which is clearly NOT true.
Also, why not let him go and get a warrant for his arrest? You are aware that the violation was for a "missing front license plate" right?
Some states don't even issue front license plates. I'm in one of them. I had no idea a cop could blow my head off for it.
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She was being 'cut slack' by not being handcuffed or put into a cell.
