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P.S. Because my last post wasn't long enough, I want to throw this in there since there are males in this thread who are intelligent and will get it. This is only partially related to this thread, but it keeps coming up on CD, so I feel compelled to say it.
This need some men have to constantly imply that a woman only complains about a man's behavior because she doesn't find him attractive needs to be laid to rest. It's the equivalent of saying "a woman only calls it rape when she doesn't want to have sex with you". Yeah. Because that's what rape is. When she doesn't want to have sex with you and you do it anyway.
In the same token, harassment is repeated unwanted behavior. What you need to learn not tomorrow or a week from now but today is that the reason that behavior isn't wanted doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if a woman rejects your behavior because she finds it aggressive and intimidating or if it's because she thinks you're an ugly turd or if it's because she really, really has to pee and you won't get out of her way so she can go do it. Once she makes it clear that whatever you're doing isn't welcomed and you continue to do it anyway, you are harassing her.
Complaining that a woman reacts differently to your advances and behavior than she might or does react to someone else's is as stupid as being mad that she was all upset when you tried to have sex with her in a dark alley but not when her boyfriend did.
Stop making excuses for the fact that a lot of men out there have no respect for a woman's boundaries and believe they're entitled to her time and/or attention and/or affection and/or body, blissfully incapable of accepting the fact that it's her choice, not his, whether or not to give him those things - be it for his personality, looks, boredom, money, loneliness, pity, friendship, who knows and who cares.
If she doesn't consent to your behavior, if she doesn't seem like she's thrilled about your behavior, stop. Otherwise, you're the problem. Not the preferences she has the right to have nor the lines she has the right to draw. You.
As a bonus, I'll add that men also need to stop equating being asked not to treat and speak about women you find unattractive like they're worthless garbage to some concerted feminist effort to get you to date women you don't want to date or say you find things attractive that you don't like.
No one gives a $hit that you're not attracted to fat women or tall women or women with flat chests or short hair or big noses or thin lips or white ones or black ones or red ones or yellow ones. You're not being asked to change your preferences. You're not being asked to defy your taste for the sake of making some woman you'd never date otherwise happy.
What you're being asked to do is acknowledge that women are human beings who neither require nor feel particularly good about men constantly offering up unsolicited commentary on how disgusting and undesirable they are because bleep and how no one would ever want them because bloop and how women who are blip should just be grateful anyone threw them a bone because they're gross and don't have the right to seek out love and mutual attraction, only to kiss the feet of any man stupid and weird enough to say they like them with a straight face.
If you aren't bright enough or mature enough to grasp that your personal preference is not and should not become a vehicle to demean and shame women at will solely because you couldn't care less how they feel - that a perceived consensus that overweight women in particular are undesirable doesn't alleviate you of the responsibility to address overweight women with dignity and respect - then again, the problem is you. Not the women who keep telling you to ease the f--k up on them already. You.
Finally, ladies - leave guys alone when they're actually trying to understand and doing their best to be respectful and hear where you're coming from and stop jumping down their throats with personal attacks whenever they say something you deem remotely sexist. Be mindful of the fact that they're struggling against pressures and conditioning that's been drilled into their heads from day one as well and are at least sitting here willing to listen to you in a world where no one really has to.
P.S. Because my last post wasn't long enough, I want to throw this in there since there are males in this thread who are intelligent and will get it. This is only partially related to this thread, but it keeps coming up on CD, so I feel compelled to say it.
This need some men have to constantly imply that a woman only complains about a man's behavior because she doesn't find him attractive needs to be laid to rest. It's the equivalent of saying "a woman only calls it rape when she doesn't want to have sex with you". Yeah. Because that's what rape is. When she doesn't want to have sex with you and you do it anyway.
In the same token, harassment is repeated unwanted behavior. What you need to learn not tomorrow or a week from now but today is that the reason that behavior isn't wanted doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if a woman rejects your behavior because she finds it aggressive and intimidating or if it's because she thinks you're an ugly turd or if it's because she really, really has to pee and you won't get out of her way so she can go do it. Once she makes it clear that whatever you're doing isn't welcomed and you continue to do it anyway, you are harassing her.
Complaining that a woman reacts differently to your advances and behavior than she might or does react to someone else's is as stupid as being mad that she was all upset when you tried to have sex with her in a dark alley but not when her boyfriend did.
Stop making excuses for the fact that a lot of men out there have no respect for a woman's boundaries and believe they're entitled to her time and/or attention and/or affection and/or body, blissfully incapable of accepting the fact that it's her choice, not his, whether or not to give him those things - be it for his personality, looks, boredom, money, loneliness, pity, friendship, who knows and who cares.
If she doesn't consent to your behavior, if she doesn't seem like she's thrilled about your behavior, stop. Otherwise, you're the problem. Not the preferences she has the right to have nor the lines she has the right to draw. You.
As a bonus, I'll add that men also need to stop equating being asked not to treat and speak about women you find unattractive like they're worthless garbage to some concerted feminist effort to get you to date women you don't want to date or say you find things attractive that you don't like.
No one gives a $hit that you're not attracted to fat women or tall women or women with flat chests or short hair or big noses or thin lips or white ones or black ones or red ones or yellow ones. You're not being asked to change your preferences. You're not being asked to defy your taste for the sake of making some woman you'd never date otherwise happy.
What you're being asked to do is acknowledge that women are human beings who neither require nor feel particularly good about men constantly offering up unsolicited commentary on how disgusting and undesirable they are because bleep and how no one would ever want them because bloop and how women who are blip should just be grateful anyone threw them a bone because they're gross and don't have the right to seek out love and mutual attraction, only to kiss the feet of any man stupid and weird enough to say they like them with a straight face.
If you aren't bright enough or mature enough to grasp that your personal preference is not and should not become a vehicle to demean and shame women at will solely because you couldn't care less how they feel - that a perceived consensus that overweight women in particular are undesirable doesn't alleviate you of the responsibility to address overweight women with dignity and respect - then again, the problem is you. Not the women who keep telling you to ease the f--k up on them already. You.
Finally, ladies - leave guys alone when they're actually trying to understand and doing their best to be respectful and hear where you're coming from and stop jumping down their throats with personal attacks whenever they say something you deem remotely sexist. Be mindful of the fact that they're struggling against pressures and conditioning that's been drilled into their heads from day one as well and are at least sitting here willing to listen to you in a world where no one really has to.
You make several great points in both of your posts! Any person, any where who thinks what the 13 year old boy did was ok,right or just no big deal is DEAD WRONG!
It is something like has been said earlier that should be "nipped in the bud" now. I don't see law enforcement as the answer to THIS particular situation, it is one that should be handled by the school the offended girl and BOTH sets of parents (given that they are both reasonable people). More "education" can be done with this boy just by involving all the parties than any legal system can at this point.
I do think the girl should be allowed to let the boy know exactly how it made her feel, if it scared her and how she now feels about all of the boys involved. I highly doubt any one of them have thought of that up to now.
Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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