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Good for them, I would fight it every way possible. THe best way to fight all this court ordered social justice nonsense is to simply disobey it. These folks get it, Kim Davis gets it and its time we all get it. We conservatives should obstruct, stand in the way, refuse to comply and then eventually rebel. Time to demand our rights, and demand the real America be restored. There is at least 100-150 million of us, they cant put us all in jail.
I've noticed that the United States has thus far avoided the religious turmoil that has torn so many other countries apart, and I think a big reason for this is that the government has been wise enough to stay out of the way and let people practice their religions in peace, with minimal interference. And it was understood that religious beliefs trumped most anything else, so only if the government had a compelling reason (such as protecting another person from bodily harm) would they interfere.
But now I see us getting away from this. There is no "compelling reason" why a lesbian couple should have a wedding cake at all, much less that it MUST be bought from that one particular bakery. And yet, the heavy hand of government is forcing the bakers to violate their religious consciences or else pay a crippling fine. (And where's the sense of proportion? Is being offended that someone wouldn't bake a cake really worth $135,000?)
What the non-religious don't understand is that, for some people, religious convictions run down to their very core. And if push comes to shove, they WILL stand up and defend those beliefs. If this sort of thing (gay rights trumping religious rights) continues, I foresee some very turbulent times coming for our country.
I don't get it. If it is against their beliefs then why should they be forced to do? Why can't the gay couple walk to a gay pride bakery and have it done..
Good for them, I would fight it every way possible. THe best way to fight all this court ordered social justice nonsense is to simply disobey it. These folks get it, Kim Davis gets it and its time we all get it. We conservatives should obstruct, stand in the way, refuse to comply and then eventually rebel. Time to demand our rights, and demand the real America be restored. There is at least 100-150 million of us, they cant put us all in jail.
We could always start with people like you who are obstructing justice and inciting violence.
On the radio an attorney was discussing this case and she feels that the judge in this case overstepped his bounds by issuing a gag order for this couple to not be able to talk or text about the case in any fashion and that $135,000 in damages was excessive since the couple didnt suffer any real, tangible loss. She said the odds are that the damages will be significantly reduced on appeal.
Thus, why should... How can the Federal Government enforce a law that prohibits the Oregon bakers from freely exercising their religion and clearly abridges their right to freedom of speech?
The gay customers could easily have gone to another bakery, one that would have been happy to bake the cake for their same sex marriage. Had they done so, they would have had their cake and they could have eaten it, too! And the religious bakers could have freely exercised their religion and their right to freedom of speech.
I dunno. I am in favor of same sex marriage.
But, I am not in favor of obvious violations of our most primary and cherished (well, they used to be cherished) rights. These are FIRST Amendment rights, for goodness sake! The very first rights that our Founding Fathers felt necessary to explicitly stipulate were inalienable to us and that the Government could not take away.
So according to you, those bakers belong to The Church Of The Cake. There's a big cake in the sky...oops, I should say big Cake In The Sky, who created the world and set down the Ten Commandments. I guess they would go something like: "Thou shalt not use anything but grade AA eggs", "Thou shalt not use a frayed spatula", "Thou shalt not allow gay people to eat chocolate frosting; it is an abomination". Sort of like that?
Is cake baking mentioned in the Constitution?
"Praise Cake from whom all blessings flow. Praise him above ye heavenly host (in this case a donut, I assume). Praise Cake, Cupcake, and empty plate."
Maybe. But, that is not analogous to the present case.
In the present case, the Oregon bakers had many times previous served gay people. They simply, in this one instance, declined to provide a cake for a same sex marriage. The bakers did not (could not) prevent the gay couple from obtaining a cake at another bakery, nor did the bakers scream sexual slurs at the gay couple. Not even once, let alone incessantly!
The Oregon bakers did not mistreat the gay couple.
Sure. But, nothing remotely similar to that took place in this case.
You should re-read (or read for the first time) the US Constitution. Pay special close attention to the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Of course there has to be some balance and limitation, and there are. One cannot claim his religion obliges him to burn his neighbor's house down. But, we used to be fairly adept at balancing the needs and desires of parties against the rights secured by our Constitution.
You assume that all religions are reasonable. But as we all know -- via the Westboro Baptist Church and radical Islam, they are not. In fact, since some interpret Islam as commanding that infidels be slain, I guess -- based on your reasoning -- that Muslims in your home town could slay you since you are an infidel.
I believe that the result of this is, unfortunately, going to be more discriminatory behavior in the marketplace rather than less. Not just outright bigots, but people who are on the fence about such things may well get upset about something that they perceive as wrong being "shoved in their face" by force of law. It would be very reasonable to expect retribution.
The bigots will no longer deny service due to the sexual orientation of the customer, but will instead come up with any number of clever ways to avoid service. Any baker who can't figure out how to avoid baking a cake for a homosexual wedding, without stating that the reason is due to the customer's sexual orientation, isn't very bright.
I've noticed that the United States has thus far avoided the religious turmoil that has torn so many other countries apart, and I think a big reason for this is that the government has been wise enough to stay out of the way and let people practice their religions in peace, with minimal interference...
Interesting post and the best argument I've seen for the baker's side. Let sleeping dogs lie.
I believe that the result of this is, unfortunately, going to be more discriminatory behavior in the marketplace rather than less. Not just outright bigots, but people who are on the fence about such things may well get upset about something that they perceive as wrong being "shoved in their face" by force of law. It would be very reasonable to expect retribution.
The bigots will no longer deny service due to the sexual orientation of the customer, but will instead come up with any number of clever ways to avoid service. Any baker who can't figure out how to avoid baking a cake for a homosexual wedding, without stating that the reason is due to the customer's sexual orientation, isn't very bright.
The private sector almost always outsmarts the government, so I suspect this is precisely what will happen.
No, it's not. And neither is homosexual marriage. But freedom of religion is. So why is it that a Constitutional guarantee is being subordinated in favor of something that not only is not in the Constitution, but wasn't even legal anywhere until the last 10 years or so?
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