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Don't see any 15-16 year Olds in your list of Nazis. She was a stupid girl at best and does need punishment and deprogramming, probably for quite some time. But execution is just not right for, like I said before, a child. I am not advocating she be released to live with a parent into society, that would be foolish. She needs to be locked up but not executed, that would makes us as bad as them.
So? Many of them were still quite young and at 16 one should be fully aware of how awful ISIS is, it's certainly not as if there is plenty of coverage about them and their acts. There's not such thing as "deprogramming" when they have gone this far. She is, and always will be a huge danger. Far as executing her would make us as bad as them. If she is executed it will be by the Iraqi government, so not our problem nor should it be. Merkel thinks allowing Muslims and Islam to prosper in her country is an awesome thing, this is the result, blame her.
I'm not against execution, but known terrorists should be executed, not housed at G-bay Cuba, then released. Known traitors to our country and those who threaten to kill our President should be executed.
These were all poor wittle women that just really never understood what they were getting involved in. It's not their fault they fell for Hitler and Nazi propaganda. It's a travesty many of them and other women like them were executed. They just couldn't fully understand Nazis and what they were doing!
Nazis were not a terrorist organization, so male and female members of the Nazi party have nothing to do with this. For parallels, we should look at other young women who joined terrorist organizations, such as Patty Hearst.
Don't see any 15-16 year Olds in your list of Nazis. She was a stupid girl at best and does need punishment and deprogramming, probably for quite some time. But execution is just not right for, like I said before, a child. I am not advocating she be released to live with a parent into society, that would be foolish. She needs to be locked up but not executed, that would makes us as bad as them.
Who are you to say what her punishment should be? Who am I? How about the judicial system of the country she was in as a willing participant of a terrorist organization?
These were all poor wittle women that just really never understood what they were getting involved in. It's not their fault they fell for Hitler and Nazi propaganda. It's a travesty many of them and other women like them were executed. They just couldn't fully understand Nazis and what they were doing!
They were adults. This thread is about a child who was in her early-to-mid-teens when she left home. Still missing your thinking cap, I see....
Sadly, she may just be naive, but she is dangerously naive to a level that precludes her future freedom in my opinion.
I'm not sure why more people can't see this as well. You may just be stupid or naive; but if you are that stupid or naive to where you are a real deadly danger to people--I don't care how old you are (as long as it can be shown that the person did it with intent), you need to be locked up! It's crazy how people really think psychopaths that assist in the torture of other people or (as in another thread) can traumatically injure a person possibly for life by pouring boiling water on them... these people are a danger to society. End of discussion.
The age thing can go so far as to ensure that they're committed to a mental institution for life, perhaps (maybe the death sentence would be too harsh though that is certainly debatable). But a slap on the rest, a few years in jail? For real people? No wonder why the world's as messed up as it is with it's lack of discipline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
You obviously never had a teenager. It's not about free will. It's all about hormones and emotions to the third degree and beyond. Mine were somewhat predictable and for the most part well balanced which considering some of their friends was not the rule. Believe me though, there was drama aplenty.
What this girl did is not surprising at all to me.
That's a great message to send to teenagers around the world: If you join a group that supports torture and makes life miserable for thousands of people, that's okay. You were just being a teenager. We all do stupid things at that age!
Once again, I understand she was unbalanced, that there were some problems going on in her life. That is not an excuse for being a danger to society. She intended, whatever the reason was for that (stress, upheaval of emotions, etc.), to support torture. She was perfectly fine with being an accomplice to horrendous acts of murder. That presents a huge danger to society to have someone like that free in it. People need to look at the facts and not introduce distractions.
Last edited by Basiliximab; 08-13-2017 at 11:56 AM..
They were adults. This thread is about a child who was in her early-to-mid-teens when she left home. Still missing your thinking cap, I see....
I think the problem many have with your line of thinking is that many teens go through trials and tribulations, but don't go off to join terrorist outfits bent on KILLING those that disagree with them. We're not talking about a kid that rebels against their parents' problem by sneaking out at night, drinking, smoking, doing drugs (or the football team), etc. We're talking about someone that willfully planned to break many laws, commit forgery, leave the country and join a group that beheads people of other religions (and sometime even their own) for fun.
How could you possibly equate the two?
My parents went through a messy divorce when I was in high school back in the mid 80's. How did I react? Did I go join the PLO, Hezbollah, IRA, etc.? Did I steal my dad's passport to defect to the USSR? No, and millions of other children of split families didn't either.
I think you're reaching for some equivalency that's not there.
That's a great message to send to teenagers around the world: If you join a group that supports torture and makes life miserable for thousands of people, that's okay. You were just being a teenager. We all do stupid things at that age!
Once again, I understand she was unbalanced, that there were some problems going on in her life. That is not an excuse for being a danger to society. She intended, whatever the reason was for that (stress, upheaval of emotions, etc.), to support torture. She was perfectly fine with being an accomplice to horrendous acts of murder. That presents a huge danger to society to have someone like that free in it. People need to look at the facts and not introduce distractions.
We don't know that. We don't know what the recruiters put in their videos, or what they said to her, when they met her in person. My bet is that they emphasized spiritual ideals, and aimed their message to lost teens, young people who were searching for meaning in life. (This is how the Saudis recruit young, unemployed men to the madrassas around the Middle East, for example.) We don't know how cognizant she was about terrorism, or even if the recruiters told her it was ISIS; they may have concealed that. Or they may have told her everything in the media is lies, and told her the true nature of the movement was something completely different.
Propagandists can twist anything, and their job is to do what it takes to sell a message that will appeal to specific types of targets. They may have told her divorce isn't allowed in Islam, and that parents are devoted to their children. That would have had an effect on her.
Is there anyone on the forum from Germany, who may recall when the story first broke, and it was discovered that girls had gone to Turkey to join ISIS? I'm sure the police investigated their computers and the sites they'd accessed. Was there any detail provided about that?
(Heaven forbid we gather some actual facts to judge by.)
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-13-2017 at 12:27 PM..
We don't know that. We don't know what the recruiters put in their videos, or what they said to her, when they met her in person. My bet is that they emphasized spiritual ideals, and aimed their message to lost teens, young people who were searching for meaning in life. (This is how the Saudis recruit young, unemployed men to the madrassas around the Middle East, for example.) We don't know how cognizant she was about terrorism, or even if the recruiters told her it was ISIS; they may have concealed that. Or they may have told her everything in the media is lies, and told her the true nature of the movement was something completely different.
Propagandists can twist anything, and their job is to do what it takes to sell a message that will appeal to specific types of targets. They may have told her divorce isn't allowed in Islam, and that parents are devoted to their children. That would have had an effect on her.
Is there anyone on the forum from Germany, who may recall when the story first broke, and it was discovered that girls had gone to Turkey to join ISIS? I'm sure the police investigated their computers and the sites they'd accessed. Was there any detail provided about that?
(Heaven forbid we gather some actual facts to judge by.)
The only way that a young adult - especially in present-day Europe - doesn't know the blindingly obvious truth concerning ISIS and their ilk is to have a mental deficiency bordering on impairment. And it's highly unlikely that anyone with that lack of mental ability could have carried out the plans necessary to get to Turkey like she did. Not saying it couldn't be done, but it's not very likely.
You are right that the propaganda is targeting these very people, but that still doesn't remove any responsibility for her own choices and actions.
Nazis were not a terrorist organization, so male and female members of the Nazi party have nothing to do with this. For parallels, we should look at other young women who joined terrorist organizations, such as Patty Hearst.
But there is a difference between this girl and Patty Hearst. Patty Hearst was kidnapped and tortured and was turned that way. The picture with her holding the machine gun was said to be unloaded. IE, they didn't trust her sufficently to give her a loaded gun. The ways she was turned are classic psychological techniques.
And she was charged and convicted and did server time.
This girl was lured into ISIS's arms, but she was drawn in, and at the time she chose to leave, nobody was forcing her to. From what's been said, she had no idea what she was getting into. Fifteen year old girls don't usually think too much ahead. And by the end she did buy into it, with her job as inspector of morals. Now she's just wanting to go home as if she could walk into another room and shut that door.
She shouldn't go home as if it was all a bad decision, or be excused. She's going to have to face her actions, and accept the reality. Just as Patty Hearst had to face things. She's going to have to admit to and take responsibility for her choices. How and how long should be the question, not if she lives.
How she behaves, and is willing to see her known acts should be what determines how long it will be before she can just go home and be 'normal'.
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