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I'm a woman, and I don't understand your post. OF COURSE men (and women, I would hope) want justice "against a false accuser" (you used the term "revenge." I don't see it that way). A false accuser is what this thread is about, so OF COURSE that is what is being discussed here.
As far as your statements "Men haven't listened to us. We are part of your world too." --- your reality must be very different than mine. There are rotten, ugly, selfish, evil, criminal, low-life men AND women (who I am aware of only through news reports). In my life and my experience, nearly everyone, of both sexes, are kind, compassionate, wonderful people. We DO listen to each other. We ARE part of the same world. We DO care about improving the world. It's our duty as human beings. PERIOD.
Are the men you've encountered really deserving of your post???
My post's platform was in response to posts in this thread where you will see that men are revealing their true feelings about their relationships with women and the lack of knowledge of what sexual assault does to women's life long psychological health. I am making a call to them to make a choice to change the laws and make society better or there will be more of the very thing they are complaining about. My view to write the post is trying to show males that they can make laws to punish false accusers in the way that they want it to be. Being outraged is good. I hope some of the male posters see this as an opportunity to contact their government representatives.
In case you haven't noticed many lies and secrets are being revealed today. And that is for a very good reason. We are at a tipping point and it will take both men and women to change and put a stop to it. Society now has the chance to accept there is a big problem that has been going on for centuries, powerful men taking advantage of girls and being sheltered from answering for their crimes by their underlings.
Yes the men I encountered sexually assaulted me, yes penetrated, at age 12 and twice at age 14. I was sent into these situations by my own father. The perps were never held accountable and went on to commit the same crime against girls for the rest of their lives. One of them was married and his wife and him were foster parents. He was doing the same thing to fostered girls. But because he was a well-respected business man no one would ever think he would be capable of pedophilia and he continued to assault girls.
There were other attempts against me but by the time those were made I had not been sent to the man by my father so I was free to say no and run away.
My post's platform was in response to posts in this thread where you will see that men are revealing their true feelings about their relationships with women and the lack of knowledge of what sexual assault does to women's life long psychological health. I am making a call to them to make a choice to change the laws and make society better or there will be more of the very thing they are complaining about. My view to write the post is trying to show males that they can make laws to punish false accusers in the way that they want it to be. Being outraged is good. I hope some of the male posters see this as an opportunity to contact their government representatives.
In case you haven't noticed many lies and secrets are being revealed today. And that is for a very good reason. We are at a tipping point and it will take both men and women to change and put a stop to it. Society now has the chance to accept there is a big problem that has been going on for centuries, powerful men taking advantage of girls and being sheltered from answering for their crimes by their underlings.
Yes the men I encountered sexually assaulted me, yes penetrated, at age 12 and twice at age 14. I was sent into these situations by my own father. The perps were never held accountable and went on to commit the same crime against girls for the rest of their lives. One of them was married and his wife and him were foster parents. He was doing the same thing to fostered girls. But because he was a well-respected business man no one would ever think he would be capable of pedophilia and he continued to assault girls.
There were other attempts against me but by the time those were made I had not been sent to the man by my father so I was free to say no and run away.
I'm sorry to hear about your assaults. It's terrible that you learned how horrible the world can be at a young age and that those who were supposed to take care of you let you down. There is so much pressure on girls/women to keep quiet and not speak out. This serves perpetrators as they are able to continue to abuse/assault other women. I do feel that the utter outrage at the rare case of a false accusation serves to keep victims silent, just when so many are reclaiming their voices.
I feel frustration at anyone who would make a false accusation because it hurts real victims but would the outrage be anywhere near as intense and all encompassing if the if the accuser were a man falsely accusing another man? I don't think so, even if the accused's life was ruined, people would likely just chalk it up to the accuser being a bad person and make very little comment. It would never turn into "men, fear every other man, he may ruin your life if you aren't very careful." When it comes to women, one woman's actions are held against all women and put forth as a statement on females in general and their "hysterical, untrustworthy ways."
It sucks for the guys who had their lives turned upside down, and I really hope they rebuild their lives. However, I will say that taking turns with a woman in the bathroom at a house-party IS A HORRIBLE IDEA. Nevermind the fact that the act in itself reeks of vulgarity and classlessness. Even if it was consensual at the time, you never know how someone is going to feel afterwards about "love-making" with two guys in a bathroom of a house-party. I'm not sure if she simply confessed to lying or she goofed up her accusation somehow, but they could be in the slammer if she hadn't.
Gentlemen, consent alone doesn't make it a good idea. Have some class and common sense and be a little selective of the who, when, and where.
It sucks for the guys who had their lives turned upside down, and I really hope they rebuild their lives. However, I will say that taking turns with a woman in the bathroom at a house-party IS A HORRIBLE IDEA. Nevermind the fact that the act in itself reeks of vulgarity and classlessness. Even if it was consensual at the time, you never know how someone is going to feel afterwards about "love-making" with two guys in a bathroom of a house-party. I'm not sure if she simply confessed to lying or she goofed up her accusation somehow, but they could be in the slammer if she hadn't.
Gentlemen, consent alone doesn't make it a good idea. Have some class and common sense and be a little selective of the who, when, and where.
Victim blaming. Seems that it's OK to blame male victims, but not female victims. Why is that?
Seriously, I couldn't believe the way this thread reads. To read this thread one would believe that falsely accusing a man of rape is just an everyday occurence and all women are capable of doing this any time they just happen to feel like punishing a man for some percieved slight. The way some posters respond with terror for men as though every man is in near constant danger of having their lives destroyed from women "crying rape."
I find it interesting considering that the vast majority of women who are sexually assaulted never report it, many never tell anyone, not even family. There is still a great deal of shame and victim blaming in sexual assault cases. Most victims require tremendous courage to speak up. I don't know why one would make a false accusation but it far from normal or common.
But it happens. Ask any divorce attorney. When the fur is flying over child custody, it's not an uncommon tactic to accuse the husband of sexual abuse. Think the Scottsboro Boys. Think the Duke Lacrosse team. And the list goes on and on.
What's more, false accusations happens to women, too.
This woman was an assistant principal at a high school in my area. She was accused by a student of having an inappropriate sexual relationship with him. She was fired to satisfy public outcry and lost her house fighting the charges. As it turns out, the charge was completely fraudulent. The boy recanted, but the damage was already done. The charges were dropped, but she is STILL fighting to expunge her record. https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i..._to_expun.html
Here's the problem. Sexual misconduct and assault is a real and pervasive problem, one that should be treated with absolute vigor. I don't believe in a 'boys will be boys' mentality and the culture that trivializes the seriousness of such acts needs to be rooted out. In that sense, the #metoo movement is an unalloyed good, shedding light on this enormous issue.
At the same time, the charge of sexual assault is such a nuclear option, such an emotionally-fraught matter, that all thoughts of evidence and procedure fly completely out the window. The charge gets made, the lynch mob forms, and the community's opinion hardens pretty fast. Because the baseline assumption is that if the victim says something then, by golly, it's got to be the truth.
But, as opposed to #metoo, there's something very insidious about the entire I Believe Her movement, an aspect that really never gets discussed. If someone goes public with a charge of sexual assault, everybody automatically says, "I believe her." And I get the desire. It's solidarity in the face of a horrific act.
Yet the kneejerk nature of the I Believe Her movement contains a pretty straightforward moral hazard: The person who says "I believe her" doesn't know the evidence. Instead, what that person does is decide guilt or innocence not on what someone did or what the circumstances and evidence are, but rather on who someone is. If one has been the victim of a sexual assault, it then assumes the guilt of a third party based on one's own experience some time in the past.
To use an analog, when you say "I believe her because she's a woman," you could just as soon say, "I believe her because she's white." Or, even worse, "I think he did it because he's black." Suddenly, it's not so palatable and noble, is it?
In fact, we're seeing this played out right now in the Kavanaugh hearings. I despise Trump and I'm not in favor of Kavanaugh ascending to the Supreme Court. But I can be objective enough about Dr. Ford's account to know that there are giant holes in her story. So saying "I believe her" is to throw out the rules of basic evidence in favor of identity politics. And is that a Pandora's Box you really want to open?
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 09-27-2018 at 02:08 PM..
Victim blaming. Seems that it's OK to blame male victims, but not female victims. Why is that?
I never blamed them, said they did anything wrong, or said that they deserved a crime being committed against them or their lives being turned upside-down. I just said it was a horrible idea. It's like going jogging at night along an unlit road in dark clothing. There's nothing wrong with it and there isn't the vulgarity element to it, but it's not the best of ideas. I don't know about you, but I generally go about life without exposing myself to unnecessary risk. I also don't care much for performing vulgar/classless acts or doing anything that my sexual partners may regret after the fact (I'd put taking turns with a woman in a bathroom at a house-party in both of those categories). I think that my advice for men as a matter of principle and self preservation was rather sound. /shrug
But it happens. Ask any divorce attorney. When the fur is flying over child custody, it's not an uncommon tactic to accuse the husband of sexual abuse. Think the Scottsboro Boys. Think the Duke Lacrosse team. And the list goes on and on.
What's more, false accusations happens to women, too.
This woman was an assistant principal at a high school in my area. She was accused by a student of having an inappropriate sexual relationship with him. She was fired to satisfy public outcry and lost her house fighting the charges. As it turns out, the charge was completely fraudulent. The boy recanted, but the damage was already done. The charges were dropped, but she is STILL fighting to expunge her record. https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i..._to_expun.html
Here's the problem. Sexual misconduct and assault is a real and pervasive problem, one that should be treated with absolute vigor. I don't believe in a 'boys will be boys' mentality and the culture that trivializes the seriousness of such acts needs to be rooted out. In that sense, the #metoo movement is an unalloyed good, shedding light on this enormous issue.
At the same time, the charge of sexual assault is such a nuclear option, such an emotionally-fraught matter, that all thoughts of evidence and procedure fly completely out the window. The charge gets made, the lynch mob forms, and the community's opinion hardens pretty fast. Because the baseline assumption is that if the victim says something then, by golly, it's got to be the truth.
But, as opposed to #metoo, there's something very insidious about the entire I Believe Her movement, an aspect that really never gets discussed. If someone goes public with a charge of sexual assault, everybody automatically says, "I believe her." And I get the desire. It's solidarity in the face of a horrific act.
Yet the kneejerk nature of the I Believe Her movement contains a pretty straightforward moral hazard: The person who says "I believe her" doesn't know the evidence. Instead, what that person does is decide guilt or innocence not on what someone did or what the circumstances and evidence are, but rather on who someone is. If one has been the victim of a sexual assault, it then assumes the guilt of a third party based on one's own experience some time in the past.
To use an analog, when you say "I believe her because she's a woman," you could just as soon say, "I believe her because she's white." Or, even worse, "I think he did it because he's black." Suddenly, it's not so palatable and noble, is it?
In fact, we're seeing this played out right now in the Kavanaugh hearings. I despise Trump and I'm not in favor of Kavanaugh ascending to the Supreme Court. But I can be objective enough about Dr. Ford's account to know that there are giant holes in her story. So saying "I believe her" is to throw out the rules of basic evidence in favor of identity politics. And is that a Pandora's Box you really want to open?
Quote:
it's not an uncommon tactic to accuse the husband of sexual abuse. Think the Scottsboro Boys. Think the Duke Lacrosse team. And the list goes on and on.
It does happen but it is uncommon and both genders can and do accuse the ex of all sorts of things to get their way in divorce or custody. They accuse of affairs, mental instability, physical abuse. Despite the popular mythology, this is not the sole domain of "bitter, vengeful" women. I've read and heard a great deal of sexism and some outright misogeny over the past week.
The vast majority of assaults are never reported. When the crime is so under reported due to the negative consequences logic defies believeing that false allegations are commonplace. Most studies show the level of false accusations to being extremely low and the numbers are often conflated with third party allegations such as a friend or family being worried, or cases where the evidence was not to an officer's liking. A case can be rendered a false accusation because an officer feels a woman is not disheveled enough. One case in a major study was declared false and the woman declared a liar because the cop felt it would be impossible to remove an overweight victims undergarments. In one small town victims were pressured into polygraphs, told they failed and pressured to recant or face serious consequences. They listed false accusations at a huge percentage.
False accusations of sexual assault are rare and those that lead to any consequences are even more rare. The list does not go on and on. In most cases of "false allegation" the accuser never even knows it happened. Almost invariable a false allegation that leads to a charge and trial of any sort is done by someone who is mentally unstable and has a history of criminal behavor, or false allegations. This is true in the case of the Lacrosse case. The woman was highly troubled, using drugs and had likely been sexually abused in childhood.
Quote:
there's something very insidious about the entire I Believe Her movement, an aspect that really never gets discussed. If someone goes public with a charge of sexual assault, everybody automatically says, "I believe her." "I believe her because she's a woman," y
People keep saying that but it's far from the truth. Victims are regularly accused of lying, especially if the man is respected and expected to prove their cases. Many called Kavanaugh's accuser a liar before hearing any testimony. More often than not, they are disbelieved unless there are multiple victims to back her up. I've never heard a sinlgle person say I believe her because she is a woman. Never, that just doesn't happen. There is a benefit given to generally credible women and men, a credible man is just as likely to be believed.
I have been posting quite a bit on this but I've never stated that I believe Dr. Ford. I want to hear the full testimony before deciding where I stand. Those in a rush to innicence or guilt are almost universally highly partisan people. I'm independent and honestly, I hate both parties near equally. Victims get the benefit of the doubt because the consequences of reporting are so serious and detrimental to themselves, this is not without merit. If someone is taking a huge risk to report a crime, they deserve serious consideration. This does not mean they are automatically believed and the accused declared guilty, and prosecuted. We still have to allow fair due process for both parties.
But surely you should agree that women that have been proven to have lied about it deserve wayyyy more time than one fricken year!
To me, a man that does rape a woman does deserve 15-20 years but so does any dumb psycho ***** that has been proven to have lied about it. Remember that story awhile back where that woman actually tried to make it look worse by specifying that black men raped her?
Did you smack the common sense right out of your head. We don't charge those who file false reports with the crime they stated happened. We don't charge a storeowner who claims he was robbed with burglary. He is charge with filing a false report, insurance fraud, etc. Each crime is judged individually to determine punishment. Most who rape don't get 15-20 years anyway.
I don't have an issue with one year considering that there were no consequences for the accused. They weren't prosecuted, it hasn't been verified that a scholarship was lost and no one even knew their names until they decided to file civil claims and sue. A false accusation resulting in a man being prosecuted is extremely rare and the perpetrator is almost invariablly mentally ill and involved in other crimes as well.
I'm not sure what case you are refferring to but I remember one case but it wasn't about making it appear "worse" the whole crime was about racism and vilifying black men.
That's the case I am referring to. And, no, a case accusation resulting in a man being prosecuted is a lot more common than many like to believe. Their names get dragged through the mud and people automatically associate them as bad regardless, not just by the media but by others that know them IRL. Women like this deserve 15-20 years easy. Don't believe the feminist lies that men are raping women left and right and women are innocent angelic creatures.
Just stop with this nonsense. I've posted very critically about this woman, i think she deserves far more than a year. But your last line is embarrassing. Nobody is claiming men are raping woman left and right and all woman are innocent angels, the poster was simply (and correctly) pointing out that many sexual assaults go unreported for obvious reasons. This is not news, it's fact.
But surely you should agree that women that have been proven to have lied about it deserve wayyyy more time than one fricken year!
To me, a man that does rape a woman does deserve 15-20 years but so does any dumb psycho ***** that has been proven to have lied about it. Remember that story awhile back where that woman actually tried to make it look worse by specifying that black men raped her?
Again the average sentence for convicted rape and the maximum sentence for false accusation/report is roughly both 7 -10 years. The false accusation convictions/sentencing is influenced heavily on actual damage caused to the victim an extenuating circumstances. In the case you link it appears no individuals were identified or charged in the false kidnapping/rape and apparently there were extenuating circumstances concerning this girl.
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