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Hello,
My girlfriend and I will be be relocating to Dallas pretty soon from the NY suburbs. We are 30, not so much into the young bar scene, but do like a non-obnoxious scene with good ethnic restaurants, cafes, non-chain shopping, smaller live music venues, etc. We do also like the idea of being in a neighborhood where we can bike/jog etc (nearby White Rock lake would be desirable from that standpoint). We'll be in corporate housing for a couple months but we plan to start looking to buy a home soon after we move.
From what I am able to glean from earlier posts in this forum, the Uptown, Greenville, M-Streets and Lakewood areas are probably where I should start looking. Any thoughts on which specific neighborhoods to prioritize? We don't like condos/apartments and we are also *NOT* fans of tract housing. The ideal would be a good sized private home on a nice treed lot that is walking distance or short driving distance from the fun areas of town.
What also would be most helpful is if someone could point out the main streets/blocks for nightlife in each neighborhood. That way as I am scanning home listings I can get a sense of where each property is located with respect to the nightlife areas. thanks so much for your help!
The big areas for entertainment in Dallas are going to be Lower Greenville (that's Greenville Avenue, south of Mockingbird), Uptown, and Deep Ellum (in the 1930s, the black dialect became "way out on Ellum (Elm) Street", which is how it got its name).
For Greenville, there are tons of restaurants, clubs, and other cool stuff. Parking is kind of a pain there, as you're smack in the middle of a residential neighborhood, and there has been friction between residents and party-goers for years.
I lived in Lower Greenville for a few years and loved it. However, the neighborhood has been changing, and not for the better. Developers are CONSTANTLY tearing down the beautiful old duplexes and houses there and throwing up teardowns at an alarming rate. And many of the old businesses have moved out or closed or are closing. The Whole Foods on Greenville that's been there forever I've heard is moving. That is going to do some real damage to the character there as well. But coming from NY, your dollars will buy quite a bit down here. Texas has REALLY reasonable rentals and housing compared to the NE and places like San Francisco.
Keep in mind that the M Street dwellings closer to Central Expressway tend to be higher in price since they've been renovated to within an inch of their lives. The area from about Mockingbird down to Ross is generally pretty safe, but there is a pocket between Central (75), Greenville, and Henderson that is a bit more iffy. Largely Latino and can have some crime problems.
The M street area heading further east toward Skillman and Abrams is going to be a little more affordable. This area becomes Lakewood, and is really a great place to live. You're really near everything. If you can't walk, you can drive there really quickly. There are lots of businesses on the upper part of Greenville too (north of Mockingbird). You have groceries, restaurants and everything very close. And a Central Market (world's most awesome grocery store) at Greenville and Lovers. There's a Tom Thumb (grocery) at Skillman and Mockingbird, Starbucks if you need it, and drugstores, pet food supply, etc.
Be careful with the area around Skillman heading south. There is a beautiful long avenue of gorgeous renovated mansions on Swiss Avenue, but as you travel south from there, the neighborhood gets very iffy between Grand and downtown. Lots of old 1950s apartment complexes that have essentially rotted out with people still living in them. And once you get east of say, Grand and Junius heading over to Samuell Grand Park near I-30, you want to be REALLY careful. Something to think about.
Deep Ellum is more of a downtown, loft filled area filled with TONS of live music venues. It sits just east of Central Expressway crossed with Elm, Main, & Commerce streets, over not quite as far as Baylor Hospital. Doesn't sound like your bag as far as housing. Unfortunately, the housing area right near it is in my previous paragraph.
White Rock Lake is a lovely area, but there is not much RIGHT around it, entertainment-wise. It's mostly residential, but the residences are really cute bungalow types. There are some businesses on Garland Rd and Buckner around the lake, but nothing like a major shopping area.
The Uptown area is HUGE right now. But it is definitely a trendy area to see and be seen in, and that doesn't sound like it is your scene. McKinney Avenue definitely has a glut of interesting restaurants, clubs, and the like. The West Village area around Cole and Lemmon has the Magnolia (indie film house) and some great restaurants, a Borders, and lots of apartments to capitalize on all that. So another area to consider.
McKinney gets a bit quieter as it heads north from about Haskell up to Knox Henderson (it's Knox on one side of the highway, and Henderson on the other if you look at a map). Knox has lots of shops, chain and otherwise (there's a Crate and Barrel and Z Gallerie among other things), and Henderson has lots of nifty little independent places to shop, and a few cool restaurants as well. There are some cute little condos and townhomes, and you might still be able to find a little house or two tucked in there. Not sure.
The area around Lemmon/Oak Lawn has always historically been recognized as Dallas' gay neighborhood (Cedar Springs being the center of the action), and there are some cool restaurants and shops there as well. Lots of cute bungalows, again. But many apartments, and many of the places are also getting torn down and redeveloped. Also, pockets of iffy here as well, between Cedar Springs and Maple, I-35 and Oak Lawn. There is a public housing project and some other very scary looking older apartments.
Very good description Badger -- however I would add that Gaston/Live Oak aging apartments are coming down. Most have been bought by Lincoln Properties. Also have you been to Henderson Ave as it runs into Ross and Lower Greenville lately? It's well on the way to being yuppified.
And I hate most of those McMansions too, but I would advise the couple to seek historic and conservation districts in East Dallas/Lakewood (we have plenty).
And it doesn't hurt that we once again had a near double-digit appreciation rate for all of East Dallas in the Dallas Morning News report today. It would be even higher for M-Streets, Lower Greenville and Lakewood (a Realtor friend tells me approx 18%).
It sounds like you should concentrate your efforts on Lakewood or the M-Streets. Both have their set of brand new housing stock. But mostly, they are older, very well built homes with incredible character. Cookie-cutter homes are met with disdain in East Dallas. Thankfully, there are conservation on historical districts that restrict what can be bulldozed and rebuilt in many parts of East Dallas.
Also, if you don't mind a smaller house, Hollywood Heights is a good area (its just south of Lakewood). It's one of those historical/conservation districts. There are some very charming old bungalows in that area. They tend to be smaller than the average Dallas house, but we Dallasites are used to things that are pretty big. What they lack in size they make up in character.
Hollywood Heights is in 75223 (Lakewood 75214 and MStreets 75206) and it's similar to the MStreets only the streets are more curvilinear and hilly. The houses are mostly the same Tudor style but just a bit smaller and less expensive and it's also a Conservation District.
You cannot really walk to stores from there as you could on MStreets (you will be mostly going to Lakewood Shopping Center) but you are sandwiched between the best golf courses in town (Lakewood CC and Tenison Highlands) and it's in Lakewood Elementary for resale value if you don't have kids. Also a very strong neighborhood association: HSMNA Home Page
If you want to check it out hang out at Lakewood Theater and Balcony Club or Times Ten Cellars to get a feel of the people. And there's the Tipperary Inn and Lakewood Lounge (an upscale dive) nearby at Skillman and Live Oak (sort of between Lower Greenville and Lakewood).
Hollywood Heights is in 75223 (Lakewood 75214 and MStreets 75206) and it's similar to the MStreets only the streets are more curvilinear and hilly. The houses are mostly the same Tudor style but just a bit smaller and less expensive and it's also a Conservation District.
You cannot really walk to stores from there as you could on MStreets (you will be mostly going to Lakewood Shopping Center) but you are sandwiched between the best golf courses in town (Lakewood CC and Tenison Highlands) and it's in Lakewood Elementary for resale value if you don't have kids. Also a very strong neighborhood association: HSMNA Home Page
If you want to check it out hang out at Lakewood Theater and Balcony Club or Times Ten Cellars to get a feel of the people. And there's the Tipperary Inn and Lakewood Lounge (an upscale dive) nearby at Skillman and Live Oak (sort of between Lower Greenville and Lakewood).
Is the Tipp still open? I drove by it the other day and it looked like it might be closed (AGAIN!). My husband and I moved out to Rowlett a few years ago (I hate it, but we couldn't afford anything closer). I miss our old neighborhood. The old grocery there at Gaston and LaVista is gone, Cafe Brazil is gone, La Dolce Vita is gone....sigh. We used to be able to walk to Cafe Brazil for breakfast when we were first married. Sure was nice.
Lakewood and M-Streets are awesome. I want to say pricing is $160-200/sq ft. If this is a little beyond your pain point (like it was ours), we chose Lake Highlands, which is basically just north of Lakewood. Prices here are $100-130/sq ft. Accessibility to White Rock Lake is still wonderful, as the White Rock Trail comes right up here. It's a 3 mile walk or bike ride on the trail to White Rock Lake. If your into cycling... that's a perfect warmup/cooldown distance.
There are some questionable apartments on Skillman, but the entire Skillman corridor is under a TIFF program ($60M dollars in future tax revenues put aside and used to assist in redevelopment). In fact, at Walnut Hill/Skillman, three large complexes (1200 units) have been bought by a developer. Roughly 80% of the residents are now moved out. Within the next couple weeks, they will be completely empty so the developer can begin. Due to asbestos abatement, the entire construction process will take until 2010 to complete, but in the end it's going to he the "Lake Highlands Towncenter", a mixed-use (residential, retail and office) with a DART rail station (it's our regional light rail).
I personally believe that Lake Highlands is on the beginning edge of a cycle of redevelopment and appreciating prices that may out-pace some of the other neighborhoods since those neighborhoods are well into their renaissances already. But then again, I do have a conflict-of-interest as this is where my wife and I live... but this is WHY we moved here.
Several folks in my immediate neighborhood have sold their homes over the last year. The houses in this neighborhood range from 2100 to 3500 sq ft. Prices range from $100 up to $130/sq ft - seems the average home is $275K-300K. Most of the homes were built in the 70's. On the lower end of the range, they need some updating (like ours), but IMO, that gives you the opportunity to do what YOU want - to personalize the home. Lots of homes have raised-panel ash (looks like oak) panelling - which my wife and I love. We have 10' ceilings in our living, dining and office; 9' in the master bedroom. Neat, angled ceilings with very nice mouldings in the dining and master. Definitely have some character compared to new, tract homes.
If you come to Dallas, PM me, I'd be happy to show you our home and talk about the different areas. Oh, and we have a commercial espresso machine, so we can get all hopped up on caffeine in the process. Hehe.
Hello,
We are 30, not so much into the young bar scene, but do like a non-obnoxious scene with good ethnic restaurants, cafes, non-chain shopping, smaller live music venues, etc. We do also like the idea of being in a neighborhood where we can bike/jog etc (nearby White Rock lake would be desirable from that standpoint).
Any thoughts on which specific neighborhoods to prioritize? We don't like condos/apartments and we are also *NOT* fans of tract housing. The ideal would be a good sized private home on a nice treed lot that is walking distance or short driving distance from the fun areas of town.
I am not sure what your price range is but I'd also check out homes along Turtle Creek and Katy Trail. There are spectacular (but for the metro area expensive) homes on very nice and treed lots, its close to entertainment, non-chain shopping etc. etc.
Hey Folks, thanks so much for the detailed replies! I haven't checked into the forums in quite some time but ironically stumbled upon my own post searching about Junius Heights.
In any event, I am currently living in Corporate Housing on Cole St. in West Village. My (now) Fiance has not yet moved down from the northeast and so I've not gotten out a whole lot to explore, etc. It is looking like we'll be renting for a bit until we have a better idea of where we'd like to be - not to mention it is the more conservative move considering the new job, etc. I need to find a place by the first week in August - so started hunting the listings this weekend.
I work in the Crescent Court complex in the lower McKinney/Uptown area so I've been thinking about a moderate priced townhouse in oaklawn, uptown, turtle creek or knox/henderson area (ideally walking distance to the Katy Trail). Is anybody familiar with the townhouse complexes in the area? It seems like there are literally a million of them and from what I gather many do not list their rentals on the MLS. I'd be super appreciative if someone could shoot me a PM with several that have a good compromise between space/cost/parking, etc. Ideally, I think we'd like a 2-3 level unit with a 2 car garage for not more than 2k (ideally as low as possible).
We are also considering renting a single family residence in the east dallas area. We really like the White Rock Lake area so it is a definite consideration, I just think we are more likely to meet people in the greater Uptown part of the city.
Again, thanks so much for the detailed information.
Regards, Stook
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Hi Stook--
