The "Apartment Kid" Stigma (Dallas, Plano: 2014, rentals, low crime)

[LauraLama]

Originally Posted by nothermom

Aren't all our kids going to be embarrassed about us - their parents - for some reason or the other, at some point or the other? As long as we impart a moral compass and imbue them with a purpose in life that works for them, the "stigma" of apartment living, or anything else (only having a condo in Aspen and not a full on house, for example), will be just a part of their backstory when they grow up.

Exactly. I have friends who live in smaller and older $500K-800K HP homes and their kids feel embarrassed because most of their friends have huge houses.

[SandyJet]

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[In_Correct]

Originally Posted by Acntx

Does anyone else feel that school-aged students who live in apartments are viewed negatively? Before joining City-Data, I hadn't heard the term "Apartment Kid" and the negative stigma attached to it. I've seen it over and over again, but it was the posts left in another active thread that prompted me to speak on the issue. The perception of "apartment kids" on this forum is sad, that's the only word I can use to describe it. The assumption is that they are economically disadvantaged, poorly behaved, uninterested in obtaining an good education, have uninvolved parents, and are mostly or solely responsible for bringing down a school/school district. That isn't always the case. Its much easier to blame and scapegoat the "apartment kids" for causing a school's failure than taking concrete steps to address the actual problems.

During the period when I was in school, my family lived in an apartment because they couldn't afford to buy a house. It wasn't a low-income, section 8 or high-end complex, just an average apartment community. It was a safe environment where crime was nearly non-existent. I was a well-behaved student who was academically successful, performing better than many kids who lived in larger homes and more affluent neighborhoods. The "apartment kid" stereotype didn't apply to me and I'm positive that there are many "apartment kids" who are productive adults today. Did anyone else on this forum live in an apartment while attending school?

Just wanted to share my thoughts on this issue.

Obviously I sound like I fit into that category of Apartment Kid. And I do not like being stereotyped.

[mami2emily]

Originally Posted by LauraLama

Exactly. I have friends who live in smaller and older $500K-800K HP homes and their kids feel embarrassed because most of their friends have huge houses.

In my experience this is more of a middle school thing and then it's over. Elementary school kids are not yet aware of such things, and high school kids could care less. My kids' circle of friends (8th-12th graders) include apartment kids, duplex kids, and bigger-than-our-house kids. I've never heard them or their friends comment on the size of the house they are hanging out at.

Funny thing is some of the people I know through my kids who have a TON of money have very modest homes in the Park Cities. They choose to spend more money on their lake houses or ranches or Colorado 2nd or 3rd dwellings.

[MurphyPl1]

I'm going to admit to a certain prejudice against renters. Not so much apartment kids as it's really not their fault. But we already exist in a pretty transient environment here in Dallas, and it appears to me that renters move on an even faster rotation. And from personal experience don't see a lot of pride in where they live. All of this is based on personal experience and observations.

When I subbed in Garland ISD, the worst schools were the ones with a high apartment concentration. But it wasn't just that it was a high number of apartment kids, because there were other schools with apartment kids that seemed to manage just fine. The deeper issue was the constant movement between apartments by families within Mesquite ISD, Dallas ISD and Garland ISD at that particular junction. So not only were they changing schools, they were changing into other districts, and often into the other district's low-performing and discipline problem schools. I subbed at the same schools for long enough that I saw students leave and then return a year later. The kids were actually pretty good kids overall but it was clear that the parents in that particular area were not considered about the impact on their student's education.

And here in my neighborhood we're at the other end of the spectrum. The home across the street is up for rent, again, for $3400. The yard never gets mowed, their cars come and go (often on the back of a repo truck) and they don't seem to have concern about the fact that the constant moving around seems to be affecting their one son's self-esteem. The home to the right had 9 people living there and they trashed the house before being evicted. And I don't mean typical stuff - they let their kids glue feathers to the walls, broke off the corners of the stairs and every switchplate cover was cracked. The home to left of the one across the street was rented by a stripper and her drug dealing, convicted attempted murderer boyfriend. Those folks would not only have loud parties in the back yard, but also loud sex as well that the kids in the house next door could hear. When they left they had all but destroyed the pool.

All of these though are due to people like the misguided soul in another thread that think he can buy a house when he has little income and no savings. People in way over their heads who rent to people who aren't vested in a nice community. These are people who "stay" places and don't "live" in places.

[LauraLama]

Seriously? One would expect better renters at that price range. We are renting out our old house at $3K and never had any issue in last 6 years. Once a tenant messed up wooden floors and they agreed to leave their one month deposit to cover repair. I'm scared now, may be time to sell it while market is hot. By the way, we send our own lawn mowing company to take care of the yard instead of leaving it to the tenants. Your HOA should fine them.

[Allison81]

Originally Posted by MurphyPl1

I'm going to admit to a certain prejudice against renters. Not so much apartment kids as it's really not their fault. But we already exist in a pretty transient environment here in Dallas, and it appears to me that renters move on an even faster rotation. And from personal experience don't see a lot of pride in where they live. All of this is based on personal experience and observations.

When I subbed in Garland ISD, the worst schools were the ones with a high apartment concentration. But it wasn't just that it was a high number of apartment kids, because there were other schools with apartment kids that seemed to manage just fine. The deeper issue was the constant movement between apartments by families within Mesquite ISD, Dallas ISD and Garland ISD at that particular junction. So not only were they changing schools, they were changing into other districts, and often into the other district's low-performing and discipline problem schools. I subbed at the same schools for long enough that I saw students leave and then return a year later. The kids were actually pretty good kids overall but it was clear that the parents in that particular area were not considered about the impact on their student's education.

And here in my neighborhood we're at the other end of the spectrum. The home across the street is up for rent, again, for $3400. The yard never gets mowed, their cars come and go (often on the back of a repo truck) and they don't seem to have concern about the fact that the constant moving around seems to be affecting their one son's self-esteem. The home to the right had 9 people living there and they trashed the house before being evicted. And I don't mean typical stuff - they let their kids glue feathers to the walls, broke off the corners of the stairs and every switchplate cover was cracked. The home to left of the one across the street was rented by a stripper and her drug dealing, convicted attempted murderer boyfriend. Those folks would not only have loud parties in the back yard, but also loud sex as well that the kids in the house next door could hear. When they left they had all but destroyed the pool.

All of these though are due to people like the misguided soul in another thread that think he can buy a house when he has little income and no savings. People in way over their heads who rent to people who aren't vested in a nice community. These are people who "stay" places and don't "live" in places.

I think this is a great explanation of the "apartment kid" stigma. I too teach at the elementary level and see the same things happening. Students move in and out of schools due to parents moving from one place to another. It's sad because they make friends and have to leave. Many of the behavior problems stem from the kiddos that live in apartments...usually lower end apartments with cheap rent.

One of my students blabbed to her classmates that she can hear her mom (who works at a bar)... "doing it" with various men in the other room. The girl has bragged about 'smoking' a pipe. And she wears very short shorts. She's 10 years old. She's an "apartment kid." Of course the rumor mill spread like wildfire and when the teachers approached her about all of this, she denied it.

[MckinneyOwnr]

Originally Posted by LauraLama

Seriously? One would expect better renters at that price range.

When you stuff 4 different families in a single family residence, $3400 comes out to be just $850 per family. That was really the only problem we had in my old neighborhood. The average house price was about $280-320k. Most houses in the development were single families. However, there were two houses that had at least 3 families living in them. They drove cheap cars and parked them all on the street, even though the houses had a garage, that was used to store junk. With three to four families, that's a lot of cars. Thankfully these houses weren't next to mine.

It's becoming more common to see people pooling their resources to buy a home with multiple sources of income, or rent with multiple incomes. Unfortunately though, these people rarely seem to want to maintain their houses or do any sort of upkeep. Our old HOA was constantly having to hound them to keep their yard/fence maintained.

[LauraLama]

I don't rent out to anyone who has more than 3 adults and 3 kids and ask to name every tenant in contract and only allow guests for 30 days.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Housing Norm

I am fascinated with this discussion because I do research on society's perceptions of renters vs. buyers and apartments vs. traditional houses. My work is part is what is referred to as the "balanced housing message"...trying to get society to see all types of housing options as equal and respected.

I do a lot of, "real dollar poverty and economic insecurity" research myself, I'm 90% sure I'll begin work on a Ph.D in that area next spring.

The problem with your job/research is many of the "biases" against renters are accurate. Renters are poorer, less educated, kids of renters do less well in school, renters are more often felons and renters are more often the victims of felonies etc. None of that is bias but instead those points are facts. I can source every single claim if you'd like.