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I currently live in Indianapolis and am considering relocating my familiy to Dallas for a job in Irving, TX. We are a politically liberal family with a child. 4 main considerations: (1) commute, (2) education, (3) affordable homes (4) not feeling completely overrun by far-right conservatives and/or religious zealouts (that's the stereotype of Texas up north, which I know is not true). Can anyone recommend a place for us to live with no more than a 30 minute commute from Irving (the job is near the airport), good schools, homes in the mid-300k range, where we may have some neighbors with whom we share a common world view? To be clear, not at all meaning to speak ill of those with conservative/religious views (we embrace them all!) - just wanting an community where we will not feel like a complete fish out of water/very isolated. Also, to add more context, we currently live in a politically-conservative area now and are very happy - folks here tend to keep politics/religion to themselves so we've done just fine. Think I'm worried about the stereotypes more than anything and need some reassurance. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Also, wanted to mention in my research was considering Far North Dallas, specifically feeding into Pierce High School. Have been told to consider Argyle and Coppell. Coppell seems out of our price range. Argyle seems possible given its proximity to Denton. Also, wanted to add we currently live in a 1969 non-cookie-cutter home and love that vintage of houses, for what it's worth.
One other item: our daughter starts kindergarden in the fall. We don't want to have to send her to a school where she would have to take a test/win the lottery to attend a good school. We also want predictably good schools through high school. Does that change anything?
The areas you mentioned are conservative bastions of the metro-plex. I would recommend you look at Lakewood and North Oak Cliff in Dallas and navigate the charter and magnet schools.
Honestly I don't think you need to avoid the suburbs. There people in the burbs that are liberal and non-religious. All of our neighbors keep their religious and political opinions to themselves. I know which ones attend church and who they vote for (based on the signs in their yard) but those topics have never come up. I wouldn't look in Argyle and yes, you probably are priced out of Coppell.
I would look at Grapevine and Flower Mound. FYI, our schools do not follow city boundaries. Grapevine is in the Grapevine-Colleyville ISD and Flower Mound is in Lewisville ISD. However, I would look only at houses that are zoned to Flower Mound or Marcus HS. I'm not as familiar with GCISD, so I'm not sure which feeder pattern would be considered best. I'm sure Christie will chime in for Grapevine.
Thanks for your feedback! Here are some follow-up questions:
1. What are some less conservative areas with good schools within a 30 minute commute of Irving?
2. For Lakewood and North Oak Cliff, what are the charter and magnet school options?
3. What is the rate of admission in those schools? Here in Indianapolis, for one of the best magnets, you had a less than 10% chance of getting your kid into it over a 3 year period (I called the school district for stats on their lottery system). We need more predictability than that.
Stephwin, thanks kindly for your feedback. Couple follow-up questions:
1. My friend who grew up in Farmer's Branch told me to avoid Flower Mound b/c there are drug problems in the high schools (like 5-pound marijuana busts AT the school). Has that been your experience?
2. Why would you recommend against Argyle? (Not at all challenging the view, just want to know what your thoughts are).
3. Will we be able to find non-cookie cutter homes in Flower Mound/Grapevine?
4. Do you agree with Alastrian2 that Far North Dallas is too conservative for us? (I should add my daughter attends the JCC in Indianapolis and we like its proximity to the JCC in Dallas).
Thanks again to both of you for your thoughts - really appreciate it.
Stephwin, thanks kindly for your feedback. Couple follow-up questions:
1. My friend who grew up in Farmer's Branch told me to avoid Flower Mound b/c there are drug problems in the high schools (like 5-pound marijuana busts AT the school). Has that been your experience?
2. Why would you recommend against Argyle? (Not at all challenging the view, just want to know what your thoughts are).
3. Will we be able to find non-cookie cutter homes in Flower Mound/Grapevine?
4. Do you agree with Alastrian2 that Far North Dallas is too conservative for us? (I should add my daughter attends the JCC in Indianapolis and we like its proximity to the JCC in Dallas).
Thanks again to both of you for your thoughts - really appreciate it.
1. I've never heard of any drug busts on the news in FM. Honestly, there are kids in every school district that will use drugs. Being in nicer/richer areas doesn't prevent that.
2. My recommendation against Argyle is that it's further out than Flower Mound and Grapevine and I think both of those cities have better schools. Also, Argyle is off 35 which will be a complete nightmare for years to come because of construction. Sure, you could use side streets to avoid 35 if you were commuting to work, but why live in a city further away from work with okay schools when you can live closer to work and send your kids to better schools?
3. Probably not, unless you aren't opposed to older homes. My aunt and uncle lived in Grapevine and their home was not cookie cutter, mostly because it was built in the late 70s. But it had been updated. The neighborhood had tons of trees and winding streets, which is a bit atypical in the suburbs. I would probably say Flower Mound is more cookie cutter than Grapevine, unless you have a big budget.
5. In general I think most people in DFW are quite respectful of each other's religious and political views, assuming you are as well (and I think you are). The only time this might be a concern is when you are really far out in the smaller towns. The majority of the people in my neighborhood (I'm in Frisco) were not born or raised here. Most came from the NE or California. That's true of a lot of suburbs here.
How often do you think your daughter will attend the JCC? If it's quite often, it might be worth looking closer to that area.
Richardson schools are for the most part great, and within 30-40 minutes of Irving. Honestly, there are so many people from other countries living there (good-sized Middle Eastern population , among others) that I think you'd find it more "live and let live." This will be true for most any suburb. Collin County (Plano, Frisco, etc ) votes Republican but has large East Asian, Indian, etc populations....you find Christians, Muslims, agnostics, etc living in the same neighborhoods & it's incredibly rare for any hate crime / animosity incidents to make the news. You have to get further out into small towns (such as Argyle) to find close-minded, extreme right neighborhoods.
The JCC is off Northaven just west of 75. There are major temples along Hillcrest Road from Northwest Hwy continuing 10-15 miles north through Preston Hollow, North Dallas, Far North Dallas, Richardson and into southern Plano. In general, the congregations get more Orthodox the further north you go.
Lastly, re: your Flower Mound drug thing, there are drugs at every single high school in the US- affluent or poor. If a kid wants drugs, he can easily get his hands on them. For the majority of kids who don't do drugs, it's not really a distraction. I wouldn't rule out a top academic district within easy commuting distance because there was a pot bust.
1. I've never heard of any drug busts on the news in FM. Honestly, there are kids in every school district that will use drugs. Being in nicer/richer areas doesn't prevent that.
2. My recommendation against Argyle is that it's further out than Flower Mound and Grapevine and I think both of those cities have better schools. Also, Argyle is off 35 which will be a complete nightmare for years to come because of construction. Sure, you could use side streets to avoid 35 if you were commuting to work, but why live in a city further away from work with okay schools when you can live closer to work and send your kids to better schools?
3. Probably not, unless you aren't opposed to older homes. My aunt and uncle lived in Grapevine and their home was not cookie cutter, mostly because it was built in the late 70s. But it had been updated. The neighborhood had tons of trees and winding streets, which is a bit atypical in the suburbs. I would probably say Flower Mound is more cookie cutter than Grapevine, unless you have a big budget.
5. In general I think most people in DFW are quite respectful of each other's religious and political views, assuming you are as well (and I think you are). The only time this might be a concern is when you are really far out in the smaller towns. The majority of the people in my neighborhood (I'm in Frisco) were not born or raised here. Most came from the NE or California. That's true of a lot of suburbs here.
How often do you think your daughter will attend the JCC? If it's quite often, it might be worth looking closer to that area.
Disagree on point 3--> Grapevine has a large historic district and homes from the 1880's and newer. There aren't the classic 1930's Tudor or traditional cottage homes you see in Dallas' historic neighborhoods, but a nice collection of Craftsman, bungalow, etc style homes.
Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but my perception and experience is that North Dallas isn't as conservative as Far North Dallas. North Dallas being near the elite privates and top notch Catholic schools (Tollway and Preston-ish). There you will find primarily fiscal conservatives but more social consciousness. Houses just outside of Preston Hollow seem to run from 3 to 500k. DISD schools in the area seem to have a better reputation there as well, but I'll let others chime in. We live in North Oak Cliff now but are toying with the idea of moving to this area if the need arises for school.
Lakewood: I'll let Lakewooder chime in as she is the resident expert on Mata Montessori and the other good public schools.
North Oak Cliff: Rosemont Elementary, where my son may go, is a basic DISD public school with dual language program within. Parents and the local community are very active in raising funds for the schools arts and athletics programs. To get into the dual language program "lottery" you basically have to show up to the two meetings. The only kids who don't get in are those who didn't show up to the meetings and are outside the feeder pattern. The next school in the feeder pattern in Greiner Middle, which serves as DISD's exploratory arts magnet. It feeds most of its students to Booker T Washington, one of the best schools in the country (139th in the country). The big thing about this area is that residents are fighting to improve the schools and community. You will find beautiful historic homes, trendy midcentury homes, urban eco friendly modern homes, rolling hills, walkable streets, csa or csa like markets, great restaurants, singles, families, straights, gays, yuppies, big Mexican families, etc.
Other DISD schools worth looking in to at the elementary level are Dealey and Harry Stone, but if your child is going into K next year as mine is, it's too late. Their acceptance rates are fairly low- 200 apps for 33 spots in Pre-K, similar odds in 1st, but if you're child is on the gifted side, worth a look. Irving has a classical charter school opening for the 2015-2016 that is well regarded in Phoenix and San Antonio. We've applied (casting the net far and wide) and they are still taking applications. Great Hearts Texas | Classical education, revolutionary schools
Stephwin - thanks very much for your extraordinarily helpful feedback - really appreciate it.
Re JCC, we were planning to send her to summer camp here and, if we move to Dallas, would certainly explore doing the same (though would be open to other options if other locales will work just as well). She currently attends JCC every day here, but if we move to Dallas she'd only attend 2 days a week until she starts kindergarten in the fall. Can you recommend somewhere closer to the JCC that we might consider? If this is outside your scope of knowledge, completely understand.
Sounds like Grapevine would be a great place for us to look. Our house is from 1969 and we love homes built in the 60s and 70s. We are on it! In fact, your aunt and uncle's neighborhood sounds similar to ours. Would you be comfortable sharing what neighborhood that is so we can check it out?
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