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Does anyone have any insight about any increase in numbers of applications this year, particularly for the preschool/lower school? I haven't heard anything from any school officials (probably because not all applications are submitted at this point) but was just wondering, as some of the open houses and other events we have attended were packed.
I remember that when Meadowbrook informed it's families last year that they would be closing I figured that would make the competition even tougher if Meadwobrook families applied this year en masse for the preferred schools at those earlier grades, but just recently I heard they have transitioned to a new location instead of closing. But I don't know if that news came early enough so that their families knew they could stay put, or if all those families still applied out?
No clue about locally but one of the podcasts that I listen to recently did an episode about how public schools in the US suffered a massive decline in enrollment after COVID and that enrollment numbers haven't recovered (and may never recover in some areas, although that's more demographic driven). Net "beneficiaries" as far as enrollment increases have been private schools, charter schools, and homeschooling. So it certainly wouldn't surprise me.
anyone knows whether there is a cutoff score for CATS for sm, hockaday and greenhill?
I don't think there is a cut off per se and what is definitely true is a high score is no guaranty that the child will get in. It is hard to get a sense of what is generally "good enough" because the schools won't say but my thinking is you need at least above average to be somewhat competitive, I could totally be wrong though.
Were the subtest scores for your older child roughly on par with one another or did they vary widely? That makes a large difference in how meaningful the overall composite (FSIQ) score is. I've quoted myself before on other threads, but see below for a more detailed discussion:
"FSIQ is impacted by regression towards the mean. The FSIQ (Composite score as you reference it) is not simply an average of the subtest/composite scores. Statistically, if all of the composite scores are above the mean and clustered close together, you will have an FSIQ that is higher than the average of the composite scores, as each "high" score has a cumulative effect on how common it would be to have high scores in each area. The opposite is also true - if all of the composite scores are low and clustered together, the FSIQ will be lower than the average of the scores. The effect is more pronounced the further away from the mean you get (i.e. if you have 4 high average composite scores, you will see the effect, but it will not be as pronounced as if you had 4 superior composite scores.)
Kids with "vanilla" composites (i.e. they are all a few points from one another) have abilities that are roughly equivalent and the FSIQ is a pretty accurate representation of their general abilities. In kids with composites that are pretty disparate, the FSIQ isn't as meaningful and is generally not a good representation of their overall ability. In kids with 3 high composites (by high, I mean significantly above the mean) and 1 much lower composite (statistically speaking - which is usually a standard deviation or more below the others), the FSIQ is misleading at best."
I've seen kids who are too young to be diagnosed with ADHD or LD who have 1 or 2 subtests that are substantially below the others, which results in the composite score being lowered to the point that is doesn't represent the overall intelligence.
Talking with the examiner is a good way to get more information on how/why your kiddo got the composite score they did. If it was refusal or one subtest that is way off, they would put that in their report to the school (which is different from the one you receive.) Schools know that 3-6 year olds have notoriously variable IQ scores based on a number of factors. If this score is explainable in an acceptable way to the school, it may not be as harmful as you think.
You really aren't supposed to administer the test more than once per year (so as to rule out learning effects since the material is the same), but if you had the time/money/inclination you could seek out an independent IQ test to cross check. The test they use for the CATS assessment isn't the only IQ test available, so if you found someone who is able to give an alternative measure, you could independently assess whether the original results seemed fishy without being at risk of "over-prepping" your kid for the CATS by repeating the same test.
Per the next few comments take my words broadly.........nationally, internationally across millions, that kind of thing.
1. Numerous psychologists and statistics types developed the noted regression analysis/smoothing techniques over time because FSIQ style results better predict overall abstract intellectual ability, potential and future academic success than eyeballing or averaging sectional scores. Given that the yield is for sure one or two relatively poor scores yield outsized impact in nominal/relativistic senses.
1.1. Admissions types have full visibility to sectional, averaged, FSIQ and other massaged results.....not to mention charts and graphs, comparative analysis etc.
1.2. FSIQ and other "regressed" numbers are used by education types and others across the world. The, "science" if you will is at least broadly accepted.
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hanlyplano
Preamble and remember I'm just some guy on the internet.....we have two academically overachieving adult kids, we've been through the North Dallas private schools wars with both, two of my good friends are psychologists. One of whom worked extensively with our son when kiddo was young.
1. It's easy to tell you are a great parent within a great family the yield of that is your son will be fine in the long run. Keep your eye on the prize.
2. All tests developed by humans have some percentage of false negative results........IQ and even acquired knowledge tests administered to little kids for ranking and predictive value more so than nearly any other area.
2.1. As a follow on.......a large subset of young kids who relativistically underperform per certain areas are actually strong in those areas. In effect they overthink, project, get stressed and fumble their way through areas in which their abstract intellectual abilities are actually strong.
2.1.1. In public school second grade our son was ID'd for evaluation by a school counselor who arranged an IQ and math battery tests to help pinpoint some math struggles. We never met the counselor nor were we allowed to see his test results........his teacher told us our son was math delayed. Reality was 180 degrees out of phase with what we were told he was and is somewhere between exceptionally and profoundly gifted in math with various lifetime markers proving as much. The point of all that rambling is your son's weak scores may well be indicative of nothing or literally erroneous.
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I'm not you but as you seem genuinely convinced your son's scores are off, I'd go to war in the short term. Consider the pros and cons of having kiddo take an age appropriate ISEE* test and overlay the results under the guidance of a local psychologist.
*IIRC various ISEE tests are designed for grades 2-12.
Best of luck.
ETA - forgot to add please excuse the typos I was in serious rush.
Preamble and remember I'm just some guy on the internet.....we have two academically overachieving adult kids, we've been through the North Dallas private schools wars with both, two of my good friends are psychologists. One of whom worked extensively with our son when kiddo was young.
1. It's easy to tell you are a great parent within a great family the yield of that is your son will be fine in the long run. Keep your eye on the prize.
2. All tests developed by humans have some percentage of false negative results........IQ and even acquired knowledge tests administered to little kids for ranking and predictive value more so than nearly any other area.
2.1. As a follow on.......a large subset of young kids who relativistically underperform per certain areas are actually strong in those areas. In effect they overthink, project, get stressed and fumble their way through areas in which their abstract intellectual abilities are actually strong.
2.1.1. In public school second grade our son was ID'd for evaluation by a school counselor who arranged an IQ and math battery tests to help pinpoint some math struggles. We never met the counselor nor were we allowed to see his test results........his teacher told us our son was math delayed. Reality was 180 degrees out of phase with what we were told he was and is somewhere between exceptionally and profoundly gifted in math with various lifetime markers proving as much. The point of all that rambling is your son's weak scores may well be indicative of nothing or literally erroneous.
__________________________
I'm not you but as you seem genuinely convinced your son's scores are off, I'd go to war in the short term. Consider the pros and cons of having kiddo take an age appropriate ISEE* test and overlay the results under the guidance of a local psychologist.
*IIRC various ISEE tests are designed for grades 2-12.
Best of luck.
ETA - forgot to add please excuse the typos I was in serious rush.
Thanks for your insight! We have our report review scheduled, so hopefully we will gain helpful insight on those scores. We are attempting to remain open-minded about what we might hear, and retain some small measure of hope that our admission chances may not be completely tanked when the results are viewed in context - honestly, any waitlist decision would feel like a victory. Our oldest is only 4, too young for a backup ISEE, so I guess for this year we will just have to hope the observations, records, teacher recommendations, and parent interviews can help us out of the hole.
On point 2.1 - that was my almost immediate thought - that our oldest just over-thought the testing. That, we have seen before - for instance being asked simple questions/tasks that we have observed obvious and plain mastery of, but whether it's perceived pressure or anxiety (sometimes I worry it's down to people-pleasing/not wanting to give any incorrect answer), will give uncomfortable "I don't know"s or "You tell me"s. We certainly don't think we gave the impression there were stakes to the "visit with a sort of teacher", but you never know what kids pick up.
Thanks for your insight! We have our report review scheduled, so hopefully we will gain helpful insight on those scores. We are attempting to remain open-minded about what we might hear, and retain some small measure of hope that our admission chances may not be completely tanked when the results are viewed in context - honestly, any waitlist decision would feel like a victory. Our oldest is only 4, too young for a backup ISEE, so I guess for this year we will just have to hope the observations, records, teacher recommendations, and parent interviews can help us out of the hole.
On point 2.1 - that was my almost immediate thought - that our oldest just over-thought the testing. That, we have seen before - for instance being asked simple questions/tasks that we have observed obvious and plain mastery of, but whether it's perceived pressure or anxiety (sometimes I worry it's down to people-pleasing/not wanting to give any incorrect answer), will give uncomfortable "I don't know"s or "You tell me"s. We certainly don't think we gave the impression there were stakes to the "visit with a sort of teacher", but you never know what kids pick up.
Fwiw, I just had a review of the cats test with Dr. Anderson. She had a healthy respect for the lack of reliability of an iq test for 5yos. (I avoided the follow up of “then why is your entire business based on the test?”
Drilling in to the subtest scores was very useful for us, independent of the admissions piece. Kiddo did a little above average but had extreme ranges in subtest scores.
After learning how she coaches schools to read the test, I do wish I had applied to some stretch schools focusing more on the spikes than the valleys. At this point I feel like relying on iq tests for small kids is kind of silly, but I did learn more about my kid through the read out…so it was useful to that extent.
It seems helpful to know we can review the scores with Dr. Anderson. We haven’t received any scores as of yet. It’s been about two weeks. How long does it take to get the results?
It seems helpful to know we can review the scores with Dr. Anderson. We haven’t received any scores as of yet. It’s been about two weeks. How long does it take to get the results?
You should receive the report next week or the week after. It took two to three weeks for us.
We have two young children who had the CATS the past couple of months. It seems to me at this young age, it measures “maturity” more than “intelligence.” I feel our girl did better than our boy because she is more cooperative, eager to follow instructions, likes order and certainty, etc. Our boy is more like: you say A but what about B? Oh yeah? You think I should do that? Let me show you another way!
I also heard school’s admissions office say they want to observe kids’ maturity and that sometimes a child is simply not “mature” enough yet for the school. Arguably schools like kids who are more “mature” because they would behave better and cause less trouble. I guess what I’m saying is maturity is not intelligence. Hope the PP and other parents whose kids didn’t score as high as expected do not stress too much about what the score say about their children’s intelligence. It could simply mean the children are not “mature” enough for the tests.
You should receive the report next week or the week after. It took two to three weeks for us.
We have two young children who had the CATS the past couple of months. It seems to me at this young age, it measures “maturity” more than “intelligence.” I feel our girl did better than our boy because she is more cooperative, eager to follow instructions, likes order and certainty, etc. Our boy is more like: you say A but what about B? Oh yeah? You think I should do that? Let me show you another way!
I also heard school’s admissions office say they want to observe kids’ maturity and that sometimes a child is simply not “mature” enough yet for the school. Arguably schools like kids who are more “mature” because they would behave better and cause less trouble. I guess what I’m saying is maturity is not intelligence. Hope the PP and other parents whose kids didn’t score as high as expected do not stress too much about what the score say about their children’s intelligence. It could simply mean the children are not “mature” enough for the tests.
That’s good to know. Aside from the intelligence test scores, it sounds like the evaluators may also be sharing their behavioral observations of the child. For instance, they may share if the child was cooperative, engaged, attentive on tasks, or what their frustration tolerance was like so the schools could see how they may perform in a classroom environment with various tasks.
I assume this situation comes up several times every admissions cycle, but does anyone have insight on what typically happens if a family submits an enrollment contract at a back-up school, then the child later gets into the first-choice school?
Is the penalty typically just forfeiture of the tuition deposit? I would be fine with that, but don't want to be "on the hook" for full tuition at both.
I understand it will largely depend the contract and each school's practice, but I'm just trying to get an idea of how those situations are typically handled among Dallas private schools. Any would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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