White Poverty in Dayton??? (crime, neighborhood, live in)

[Dayton Sux]

So I was wondering if someone from Dayton or someone familiar with that
section of Dayton could provide some insight, historical or otherwise into this
situation.

I grew up in Ohio about an hour north of Dayton, now live /
work in rural South Carolina and on a daily basis I see white poverty so I have
these daily images in my head based on what the data provides but wanted to get
some info from those who actually know the area and what not.

Belmont and nearby smaller hoods like Patterson Park and Shroyer Park are sort of old 1920s era with some 1940s and early 1950s housing. It was originally an older lower-middle-class and blue collar hood and is..still... probably the most stable neighborhood in Dayton, yet it is probably not much poorer than nearby parts of suburban Kettering and Riverside


That being said, the Dayton PS are so bad the people who can afford to send their kids to Catholic parochial schools or Protestant "Christian" schools, leaving the poorer folks (in Belmont we are talking more the working poor...who qualify for school lunches, EITC, etc, but not below the poverty line), to go to the public schools.

Dayton in general has a high concentration of white poverty, which is contrary to the usual story that white poverty and working poor are more dispersed throughout a metro area (sort of a BS story IMO). This is because there was massive deindustrialization here starting in the 1970s which affected the factory-worker whites as much as it did the blacks.

So these now-poorer white folks, working in lower paying jobs than their fathers and grandfathers did, end up concentrating within the city of Dayton for cheap housing. Housing is cheap because its
a) old,
b) not kept up
c)(big reason) no one wants to live in the city because of the bad schools.

...so poor-er folks live where the living is cheap since that's what they can afford. Hence the stats you see.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye

So "white ghetto" is probably not an accurate title for the area I guess. Is it fair to say though that there is certainly a pocket of white poverty that exists in that part of town?

It's definitely a white ghetto on East Third - complete with bombed out buildings, declining businesses, a poor school district, and a lot of crime.

Here's a map of the racial makeup of the Dayton area: red is white, blue is black, and purple is mixed. It's broken down by census tract:




This data came from the 2010 Census so it's a few years out of date: to that extent, I see a much larger proportion of blacks in east Dayton in 2015 than this map would ordinarily show - if I were to take a guess, I would say about 30% (which would be much purpler than this map indicates).

I don't have the exact data off hand, but people are still generally leaving Dayton as quickly as they can.

My supposition is poor whites move to Kettering and West Carrollton, and blacks move to Trotwood, Huber, and Englewood (and in smaller numbers to the Dayton Mall area). I left out rich whites from that preceding sentence because, well, there aren't really any aside from the few that are moving back downtown. I wonder if anyone has data to corroborate this?

[randomparent]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

It's definitely a white ghetto on East Third - complete with bombed out buildings, declining businesses, a poor school district, and a lot of crime.

Here's a map of the racial makeup of the Dayton area: red is white, blue is black, and purple is mixed. It's broken down by census tract:




This data came from the 2010 Census so it's a few years out of date: to that extent, I see a much larger proportion of blacks in east Dayton in 2015 than this map would ordinarily show - if I were to take a guess, I would say about 30% (which would be much purpler than this map indicates).

I don't have the exact data off hand, but people are still generally leaving Dayton as quickly as they can.

My supposition is poor whites move to Kettering and West Carrollton, and blacks move to Trotwood, Huber, and Englewood (and in smaller numbers to the Dayton Mall area). I left out rich whites from that preceding sentence because, well, there aren't really any aside from the few that are moving back downtown. I wonder if anyone has data to corroborate this?

Huber Heights was super white when I lived there as a young married. Has it changed that much in the past twenty-five years?

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by randomparent

Huber Heights was super white when I lived there as a young married. Has it changed that much in the past twenty-five years?

South of I-70 your answer would be correct.

Huber's population has grown slightly in recent years because it's annexing parcels in Miami County which is where they're building new subdivisions at the edge of the built-up area. That new development is overwhelmingly white.

[SWOH]

^I'll add that Carriage Trails (the development being referred to above) has made the township in which it is located far more diverse. The community itself is probably under 90% Caucasian, while the township in which it is located is around 99% Caucasian.

That being said, Huber north of I-70 is far more homogeneous than the rest of Huber Heights. Wouldn't quite go as far as calling Huber Heights a destination for minorities to move to, but for many it is probably on the short list.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Reference: Post #7 Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant
Dayton was somewhat integrated before urban renewal and busing. The two together upset the town.

Possibly what's left of the so-called middle class in the Belmont area no longer has school age children.

Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye

The latter comment sounds very plausible as I notice that in my hometown of Lima as well in all parts of the city.

Could you elaborate maybe more on the former comment. What exactly does "upset the town" mean?

If you do a reasonable check through early 20th century Dayton history you'll find that quite a number of black people lived east of the Great Miami river, some along Springfield street, some south of East Third like beyond Wayne avenue some more or less downtown west of Main but east of the river.

Good, bad or indifferent urban renewal tore down much of the housing, and a reality of life is, people have to live somewhere. Many headed west as they could find relatively safe places to live west of the river among the blacks there which created some schools that had heavy concentrations of black children. When our attorney went to Roosevelt high school well before urban renewal, it was about 2% black. When it was time for his daughter to start high school after urban renewal, it was reportedly 50% black.

If you even change the color of paint on a house, you change what people are familiar with and you'll disturb anyone who doesn't like it for some reason. Tear down entire blocks, including businesses. and you've seriously disturb hundreds of people. Urban renewal happened a lot of places. In fact, in little bits it's ongoing much of the time now. If a town is big enough (or maybe configured differently) so that it can absorb the repercussions it's not too bad a thing -- changes are a part of life. If it isn't big enough, and Dayton wasn't, you've upset the applecart.

And, the first end result of the migration was that people on the outside started defining black/white as east and west of the river. Yeah, well, on the map above which hensleya1 posted that very blue blob where the I-75 markers are is east of the river in what has been properly called North Dayton, once the area of a big metro housing complex (Parkside) and a highrise. Now when you don't fairly accurately mean what you say, you add confusion to the upset.

Sorry to have take so long to reply to your question, but I get delayed.

[woxyroxme]

There are a lot of poor whites in East Dayton, if you look through the Dayton photo thread there is a link to an excellent blog by Drexel Dave, I knew him from the WOXY.com board and took some of the pics (iconoclast420) in 2005, lots of shirtless briars on BMX bikes drinking high gravity beer.

[wrightflyer]

I think that some of the more interesting possibilities is the moving of Hispanic populations to parts of East Dayton. From people that I know who live in Dayton, that has caused problems (i.e. gang activity, such as MS-13).

While that is mostly north of US35 along East Third, it inevitably shows a shift in where poor whites are living. So Hensleya is probably in the right direction in saying poor whites are moving to parts of Kettering or West Carrolton. I would say East Dayton is becoming more Hispanic though, as opposed to more black. Riverside should probably be included on that list. Perhaps even some of the cheaper (100K and less) homes in Beavercreek, though most of the homes in that price range need extensive work and probably aren't immediately livable.

Anyone with kids, unless they are serious urban pioneers who can send their kids to private schools, are typically leaving (including aforementioned friend who moved to Oakwood). And it mainly has to do with schools. It also doesn't help that one of the largest employers in the area (and state), WPAFB, brings highly educated individuals here. Even if they don't spend more than five years here, they tend to want stable schools and with that, stable resale. Until Dayton turns its school system around, it will be difficult to get good, decent-scaled redevelopment. And that is a problem in many mid and large sized metro center cities.

[weatherphotographer]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

South of I-70 your answer would be correct.

Huber's population has grown slightly in recent years because it's annexing parcels in Miami County which is where they're building new subdivisions at the edge of the built-up area. That new development is overwhelmingly white.

Wikipedia says it 78/22, but I swear its 50/50 when you are talking about areas south of i 70.

[lived here forever]

The area along Springfield St. has always been mainly black. Our worldwide famous artist, Bing Davis, grew up there. Mt Pisgah Church, located at Springfield and N Irwin is one of the bigger churches.
As for the Hispanics, there are not as many as used to be. Many Russian and Turkish families have moved into the area, and my neighborhood has become very very diverse. I remember when I was growing up, most of the parents either worked at NCR, Fridgidiare, or Delco, with a few from the base, and it was an all white neighborhood. I like the change.