Replacing Polybutylene pipes inside house. Thoughts and cost. (Lakewood, Littleton: foreclosure, countertops)

[Mystery123]

I'm in process of buying a house and this house has polybutylene pipes inside the house.
From master meter to the house, it is metal pipe.
Inspector mentioned it's copper but not sure as it doesn't look red but is metal.
It's a small house around 2350 sq. ft. total including unfinished basement.
Built in 1993.
It doesn't seem to have a lot of pipes in the basement ceiling.
Just one main line that's branched at one or two places and few small ones off of that with needle valve.

Main floor has kitchen and a toilet with a sink.
Upstairs has master bath and another bathroom so I think that's where it's difficult to replace the pipes.

Inspector said not to worry too much as the PB pipes have copper trims so it's unlikely to leak but I've read where PB pipes themselves creak and split.

If it's not too expensive, I can replace but price range is all over the board from reading threads anywhere from $1500 to over $5000.

What do you guys think?
Replace or just move in as is?

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Mystery123

I'm in process of buying a house and this house has polybutylene pipes inside the house.
From master meter to the house, it is metal pipe.
Inspector mentioned it's copper but not sure as it doesn't look red but is metal.
It's a small house around 2350 sq. ft. total including unfinished basement.
Built in 1993.
It doesn't seem to have a lot of pipes in the basement ceiling.
Just one main line that's branched at one or two places and few small ones off of that with needle valve.

Main floor has kitchen and a toilet with a sink.
Upstairs has master bath and another bathroom so I think that's where it's difficult to replace the pipes.

Inspector said not to worry too much as the PB pipes have copper trims so it's unlikely to leak but I've read where PB pipes themselves creak and split.

If it's not too expensive, I can replace but price range is all over the board from reading threads anywhere from $1500 to over $5000.

What do you guys think?
Replace or just move in as is?

Depends how much ceiling you are going to have to tear out to access the pipes. Replacing pipes is easy if they are easily accessable, but if you are going to have to tear open lots of walls and ceiling to get at them it is going to get expensive. Best to get bids from multiple plumbers on site. No one here will be able to tell you how much it will cost without having seen it.

[Mystery123]

Thanks for reply.
So licensed plumbers with warranty is needed, right?

Craigslist plumbers/handyman is not the way to go.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Mystery123

Thanks for reply.
So licensed plumbers with warranty is needed, right?

Craigslist plumbers/handyman is not the way to go.

I would, but my guess is that it is going to be cost prohibitive. I would just move in unless there are obvious signs of problems with the pipes.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Wow, why would you want to replace it? I am getting ready to replace the copper with PEX. It can last for 50 years without a problem. We have all copper and I can't wait to get rid of it. Copper over time can get holes in it. I know as ours has plenty of holes in it that I have repaired. with PEX you don't even have to soldier it or braze it. The connectors snap together. Before you replace it you may want to read up on it. You may find that you like it.

[Mystery123]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I would, but my guess is that it is going to be cost prohibitive. I would just move in unless there are obvious signs of problems with the pipes.

There is no signs of problems.
One small section around 6 inches in basement ceiling has new brass T-join and looks like a nail on the wood was touching it before to cause the hole/leak.
This house needs new carpet and painting so thinking this may be good time to do this than later.

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Wow, why would you want to replace it? I am getting ready to replace the copper with PEX. It can last for 50 years without a problem. We have all copper and I can't wait to get rid of it. Copper over time can get holes in it. I know as ours has plenty of holes in it that I have repaired. with PEX you don't even have to soldier it or braze it. The connectors snap together. Before you replace it you may want to read up on it. You may find that you like it.

???
I never mentioned what to replace PB pipe with with.
The mentioned copper pipe is what there is from master meter to the house.
If I replace, it'll be either all PEX or combination PEX and copper for hot water depending upon cost.
While PEX is rated great, it is soft and rats can chew through it if they somehow enter the house from what I read.
thanks

[Ryker49]

Originally Posted by Mystery123

I'm in process of buying a house and this house has polybutylene pipes inside the house.
From master meter to the house, it is metal pipe.
Inspector mentioned it's copper but not sure as it doesn't look red but is metal.
It's a small house around 2350 sq. ft. total including unfinished basement.
Built in 1993.
It doesn't seem to have a lot of pipes in the basement ceiling.
Just one main line that's branched at one or two places and few small ones off of that with needle valve.

Main floor has kitchen and a toilet with a sink.
Upstairs has master bath and another bathroom so I think that's where it's difficult to replace the pipes.

Inspector said not to worry too much as the PB pipes have copper trims so it's unlikely to leak but I've read where PB pipes themselves creak and split.

If it's not too expensive, I can replace but price range is all over the board from reading threads anywhere from $1500 to over $5000.

What do you guys think?
Replace or just move in as is?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I would not buy a home with polybutylene plumbing. Been there, done that, and have a 2" thick file with paperwork related to the nightmare I went through to prove it. In 1990, I had a new home built in Albuquerque. The contractor used polybutylene piping from the street to the house, and all throughout the house (a 4-BR, 3500 s.f. two-story built on a slab). As the house was being built, I noted the unusual (to me) gray plastic piping being used for the water lines instead of the usual copper lines I was familiar with. The builder told me that it was the "new standard" in plumbing for homes. I didn't challenge that statement at the time. In 1995, I began to have water leak problems in two of the three bathrooms. The leaks were coming from behind the walls. I hired a plumber to fix the leaks - at fairly great expense - because he had to cut through the sheetrock walls and remove the vanities to repair the leaks. That plumber warned me that polybutylene plumbing "is crap" and is prone to leaking. By 1999, due to my abnormally high water bills, I deduced that I must a water leak under the slab since I could find no leaks within the house. The Albuquerque water department came out and verified that I did indeed have a leak somewhere under the slab. I researched problems with polybutylene plumbing on the internet and discovered a nationwide problem with its use in residential homes. Fortunately for me, I also discovered that a class action suit had been filed against the manufacturer of the stuff, and that a court had ruled that the manufacturer must reimburse homeowners for expenses incurred due to the faulty material and/or replace all existing polybutylene plumbing with copper or PEX water lines. The window for filing a claim was closing fast, so I quickly filled out all of the forms, gathered the required documentation, and Fed-Ex'd the package to the arbitrator's office. To make a long story short, my claim was accepted and a contractor from El Paso, TX that specialized in replacing polybutylene lines came to Albuquerque and replaced all of my water lines - from the street to the most distant upstairs bathroom. They had to dig up my yard, cut large holes through numerous interior walls, and replace every water line and connection. The job was messy and dusty, and we had to vacate the house for five days, but they did a wonderful job. After that, no more leaks! Because of the class action suit, the job cost me nothing. (They even paid for our 5 days in the motel.) Had I paid for it out of pocket, the bill would have been over $25K. After that experience, I vowed to never buy another home with polybutylene plumbing lines. If I were you, I would do the same. But if you love everything else about the house and really want to call it home, then I would require the seller to replace the water lines as a condition of the sale.

[Mystery123]

Originally Posted by Ryker49

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1995, I began to have water leak problems in two of the three bathrooms.
Had I paid for it out of pocket, the bill would have been over $25K.
After that experience, I vowed to never buy another home with polybutylene plumbing lines. If I were you, I would do the same. But if you love everything else about the house and really want to call it home, then I would require the seller to replace the water lines as a condition of the sale.

Thanks for comment.
There has been no leak problems in this house AFAIK and all pipes (except a six inch section that has new brass joint) look to be in good condition.
$25K repair cost will definitely change the deal but I don't think it'll be that high.
I'm thinking around $3k as the pipe from master meter to the basement ceiling is metal, not PB so it's only inside pipes that need replacement.
Since the main pipe is on the top level of basement ceiling, I guess it's not under a slab???

Once PB pipes are replaced, there is no PB issues to worry about.

PB pipe is/was mentioned on the property disclosure and the seller is pretty much up to the neck (more like eyes) in late payment and facing foreclosure/bankruptcy so he's not doing anything on the house.
Basically, it's as is condition sale.
I already have done the inspection and this house needs around $20k to fix everything such as windows (pretty much all windows need some kind of fix like re-seal, plastic trims, screens, replace, locks), exterior caulking/painting, gutters in some section, interior paint, new carpet, new countertops, kitchen floor, new furnace (current one is working but is about end of life), air conditioner (there is none), deck seal/paint, few new doors, replace garage firewall etc...
But looking at current prices of similar houses, even after $20k, this house will still be worth at least $30k more.
Housing market is really hot in Lakewood/Littleton area.
I've been beaten by buyers who offered over listed price few times on houses that are assessed/estimated way below listed price.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Mystery123

???
I never mentioned what to replace PB pipe with with.
The mentioned copper pipe is what there is from master meter to the house.
If I replace, it'll be either all PEX or combination PEX and copper for hot water depending upon cost.
While PEX is rated great, it is soft and rats can chew through it if they somehow enter the house from what I read.
thanks

Sorry. I Forgot that PEX is short for polyetheline and not Polybutylene. Two differant things. LOL

[Mystery123]

Asked one plumbing company and just by size/build (kitchen and toilet on main, two bathrooms upstairs) of house, it should not exceed $3k, more like $2500 for all PEX pipe replacement so I'm leaning towards replacing them.
It'll also help when I sell the house. I can claim all PB plumbing replaced.

The catch is, they don't fix the drywalls after cutting holes so either I have to reseal and paint the wall or find someone to do that.
I'll be painting whole interior anyways so painting is not an issue, but fixing drywall is.