I feel like Denver metro Colorado isn't a good place to invest in my future (Boulder: low crime, schools)

[tanbark813]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

People have been saying Colorado is becoming California since before I was a kid in the 80s. It’s a dog whistle to certain people. Colorado is what it is, but it’s not ever going to be California.

CO is definitely not CA. Anyone who thinks it is hasn't spent much time in CA. CO is way more affordable, less crowded, better politics, nicer people, better schools, better roads, etc... In CA, you can't even get plastic bags in grocery stores for f**ks sake.

And traffic? No. It's adorable when people think Denver has "bad" or "insane" traffic. Go to LA--or drive 880 through Oakland during rush hour--if you want to see real traffic.

The median home price in both SF and San Jose is over 1M. My buddy bought his 1500 sq bf 3BR home on the peninsula several years back for about 800K. It's nice but nothing special. It was just appraised for 1.6M. I keep telling him to sell and buy a mansion here in cash, but no dice so far. Anyway...

Originally Posted by Ankhharu

If you think Denver traffic is bad, don't move to a big city, otherwise you'll see what bad traffic really looks like.

Agreed.

[patch62383]

Originally Posted by tanbark813

CO is definitely not CA. Anyone who thinks it is hasn't spent much time in CA. CO is way more affordable, less crowded, better politics, nicer people, better schools, better roads, etc... In CA, you can't even get plastic bags in grocery stores for f**ks sake.

And traffic? No. It's adorable when people think Denver has "bad" or "insane" traffic. Go to LA--or drive 880 through Oakland during rush hour--if you want to see real traffic.

The median home price in both SF and San Jose is over 1M. My buddy bought his 1500 sq bf 3BR home on the peninsula several years back for about 800K. It's nice but nothing special. It was just appraised for 1.6M. I keep telling him to sell and buy a mansion here in cash, but no dice so far. Anyway...



Agreed.

Well I'm glad you think it's adorable that I think Denver traffic sucks. I grew up here not California and I think it's starting to suck. Does that make me a whiner idk and honestly I don't give a damn I know what I'm seeing and yes traffic is starting to suck in Denver. It's called different strokes for different folks and you couldn't pay me enough to live in California. I don't need overly priced living with stand still traffic and to be in the hip town. I'd take space and peace of mind any time over the popular choice. BTW the union scale in California is also 20 dollars an hour more than Denver. Just because housing is half the cost here does not mean it's that much more affordable than California when you look at the whole package. Kansas is 2 dollars an hour less than Denver in wages and the cost of living is half. I think we're all different and have different ideas on how we want to live and big city, overpriced and crowded isn't my choice life's to short to deal with the rat race.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by patch62383

Well I'm glad you think it's adorable that I think Denver traffic sucks. I grew up here not California and I think it's starting to suck. Does that make me a whiner idk and honestly I don't give a damn I know what I'm seeing and yes traffic is starting to suck in Denver. It's called different strokes for different folks and you couldn't pay me enough to live in California. I don't need overly priced living with stand still traffic and to be in the hip town. I'd take space and peace of mind any time over the popular choice. BTW the union scale in California is also 20 dollars an hour more than Denver. Just because housing is half the cost here does not mean it's that much more affordable than California when you look at the whole package. Kansas is 2 dollars an hour less than Denver in wages and the cost of living is half. I think we're all different and have different ideas on how we want to live and big city, overpriced and crowded isn't my choice life's to short to deal with the rat race.

Yes traffic is worse than it was when I was younger. Yes it’s more expensive than it was when I was younger.

Those are two negatives that come with growth. Cities either grow or decline. I would much rather live in a growing city than a dying one. Staying the same is never an option.

I love the city Denver has become, but it’s not without its pains. If it’s not for you, it’s time to move along. Focus on what you need in life and find it. The more time you spend complaining the less happiness you’re likely to find.

I do find the idea that people who were born here think they have some divine right to what this city is or should be to be ridiculous. My family moved here before Colorado was a state. I don’t own it any more than the guy who moved here yesterday....Even if he came from California.

[BornintheSprings]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Yes traffic is worse than it was when I was younger. Yes it’s more expensive than it was when I was younger.

Those are two negatives that come with growth. Cities either grow or decline. I would much rather live in a growing city than a dying one. Staying the same is never an option.

I love the city Denver has become, but it’s not without its pains. If it’s not for you, it’s time to move along. Focus on what you need in life and find it. The more time you spend complaining the less happiness you’re likely to find.

I do find the idea that people who were born here think they have some divine right to what this city is or should be to be ridiculous. My family moved here before Colorado was a state. I don’t own it any more than the guy who moved here yesterday....Even if he came from California.

I would one day like to see Denver become the largest city in North America.

[Hschlick84]

patch62383, people will deny that CO is turning into CA. However, when you read this article regarding the first city outside the west coast passing a ban on declawing cats, they're grasping at straws. Wouldn't it make sense to rely on the veterinarian's choice to say whether or not to declaw the cat? CO is the puppet state of CA when it comes to policies because 'CA did it too!'

On a last note, you'll be better off leaving the state and looking for better opportunities. I did the same thing.

Denver cat declawing ban faces final vote in City Council

[Indigo Cardinal]

Originally Posted by tanbark813

CO is definitely not CA. Anyone who thinks it is hasn't spent much time in CA. CO is way more affordable, less crowded, better politics, nicer people, better schools, better roads, etc... In CA, you can't even get plastic bags in grocery stores for f**ks sake.

And traffic? No. It's adorable when people think Denver has "bad" or "insane" traffic. Go to LA--or drive 880 through Oakland during rush hour--if you want to see real traffic.

The median home price in both SF and San Jose is over 1M. My buddy bought his 1500 sq bf 3BR home on the peninsula several years back for about 800K. It's nice but nothing special. It was just appraised for 1.6M. I keep telling him to sell and buy a mansion here in cash, but no dice so far. Anyway...

The problem is, this is all relative. To somebody coming from a much larger metropolitan area, such as Los Angeles or New York, then yes, Denver is less crowded, has better traffic, and is more affordable. Somebody moving in from one of those cities could probably sell their 1000 square foot home for half a million dollars, and buy a nearly identical house here for half that cost.

But for somebody moving here from, say, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Denver is wildly expensive, with more traffic congestion. (I made that move back in 1998, when Denver wasn't as bad with either, but still significantly more than Tulsa.)

And for those of us who have been here for a while (almost 20 years in my case), we have seen the changes in rent/traffic. For example, when I first moved here in January 1998, I was making $38,000/year, and was able to rent a nice apartment in the heart of the DTC. I also had a new car (a Jeep Cherokee), and plenty of disposable income--I would travel around the country for fun frequently on a whim. And I was able to buy my first house two and a half years later, and my salary was a smidge under 50K a year then.

Twenty years later? My sister moved out here to take a job and is making what I did 20 years ago. Granted, inflation always has to be taken into account, but that apartment in the DTC I rented all those years ago? My sister wouldn't have a prayer of being able to afford it now--the rent for it is now 2.5 times what I was paying for it. The house I bought in 2000? Housing prices went up so much that 15 years later, I sold it for 50K more than what I paid for it--by then, it was a 30-year-old townhouse in an 'okay' area. The house I bought two years ago with the proceeds? The estimated price I could get for it if I decided to sell it now has already gone up 65K in the two years I've been there. Even with as much as I'm making now, I probably couldn't afford to buy it if I were trying to do so now.

Nobody's saying other cities aren't facing those problems on a larger scale than Denver, but for a lot of people who have been here awhile or are looking to move here from smaller, cheaper places, Denver's got plenty of traffic/housing price issues as is.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by BornintheSprings

I would one day like to see Denver become the largest city in North America.

You’re thinking too small. Bigger than Tokyo and with better sushi.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

patch62383, people will deny that CO is turning into CA. However, when you read this article regarding the first city outside the west coast passing a ban on declawing cats, they're grasping at straws. Wouldn't it make sense to rely on the veterinarian's choice to say whether or not to declaw the cat? CO is the puppet state of CA when it comes to policies because 'CA did it too!'

On a last note, you'll be better off leaving the state and looking for better opportunities. I did the same thing.

Denver cat declawing ban faces final vote in City Council

Ummm it does rely on the vet. A vet can overrule the law for medical reasons.

I do love that someone would point to a declawing ban as a sign that a city is going downhill. Good riddance.

[BornintheSprings]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

You’re thinking too small. Bigger than Tokyo and with better sushi.

I like how you think. Just think of how much land would appreciate.

[tanbark813]

Originally Posted by patch62383

Just because housing is half the cost here does not mean it's that much more affordable than California when you look at the whole package.

You're right that housing isn't the only factor but everything across the board is more expensive in CA. Gas, food, car registration, taxes, insurance... Everything. Making a 10-20% higher salary doesn't matter when it's 50-100% higher COL.

Originally Posted by Indigo Cardinal

Twenty years later? My sister moved out here to take a job and is making what I did 20 years ago. Granted, inflation always has to be taken into account, but that apartment in the DTC I rented all those years ago? My sister wouldn't have a prayer of being able to afford it now--the rent for it is now 2.5 times what I was paying for it. The house I bought in 2000? Housing prices went up so much that 15 years later, I sold it for 50K more than what I paid for it--by then, it was a 30-year-old townhouse in an 'okay' area. The house I bought two years ago with the proceeds? The estimated price I could get for it if I decided to sell it now has already gone up 65K in the two years I've been there. Even with as much as I'm making now, I probably couldn't afford to buy it if I were trying to do so now.

Everywhere is more expensive now than it was 20 years ago.