So-called "Right to Survive" Initiative seems to be popular (Denver: lower-class, real estate)

[Mike from back east]

I don't think our cities can continue to be huge buckets holding homeless types camping out, sleeping under bridges, on steam grates, in doorways, or on park benches.

We had a long thread on this in the COLO SPGS forum last year or so and my best idea then was to bring back the old time "work farms" or "work houses" where the indigent could work at something and get a place to stay that's off the street. To make it work we'd have to outlaw panhandling and vagrancy (homeless).

We can't dump trash in the parks or on the streets, we shouldn't be able to dump the homeless there either.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I don't think our cities can continue to be huge buckets holding homeless types camping out, sleeping under bridges, on steam grates, in doorways, or on park benches.

We had a long thread on this in the COLO SPGS forum last year or so and my best idea then was to bring back the old time "work farms" or "work houses" where the indigent could work at something and get a place to stay that's off the street. To make it work we'd have to outlaw panhandling and vagrancy (homeless).

We can't dump trash in the parks or on the streets, we shouldn't be able to dump the homeless there either.

So full blown slavery or gulags? Just because you choose nice words does not change how vile your suggestion is. How much is the compensation going to be in these “work houses”?

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by 2bindenver

I think it won’t pass. Taste of Colorado has said if this passes they will be forced to cancel.

Boo hoo, so what. Maybe solve the problem then so it’s not an issue anymore

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by emm74

I was already inclined to vote against it for admittedly personal quality of life reasons - we've had people camping in local parks who have left drug paraphernalia including syringes, and human excrement, in our local parks where people go with their small children and dogs.

But based on the link I posted up thread to the Denver Rescue Mission statement on it, reading what people who have dedicated their careers to helping this population have to say makes it seem like a real lose/lose scenario IMO. Yes, a lot more needs to be done, but this isn't going to do anything to fix the actual problems of homelessness and in the worst case scenario, it turns Denver into a less desirable place to live, property values tank, tax revenues drop and then there is even less money and political will to put towards fixing this issue.

Busting people for lagit crimes like drugs is valid. Don’t like people being down on their luck, you get to smell poo and pee and see tents in the parks.

This is not designed to fix it, it’s designed to put it in your face so that people are forced to really figure it out not just do a couple little things.

Everyone who has half a brain cell knows why this is happening but people are to greedy to actually do anything.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

In many cases, they're homeless because they're addicted to drugs.

They should be given the option for jail or drug treatment.

The documentary Seattle is Dying talked about how Rhode Island (hardly a hotbed of right wing conservatism) doesn't let drug addicts live on the streets. When they break the law, they get the option of jail or drug treatment. They get tons of support and a choice of 3 different medications to keep them off drugs. They get continued mandatory support when they get out of prison.

The Seattle documentary talks about how allowing squatters costs the county about $1 Billion a year. Much of the money is wasted on arresting people and then having them get let right out again. Money spent on evacuating and cleaning up camps only to have them pop up elsewhere. Money spent on emergency room treatment for drug overdoses only to send them back out on the street so they can use drugs some more. Even one of the homeless people interviewed in the documentary said that 100% of the people camping on the streets were in various stages of addiction.

People have to understand that a good chunk of the homeless issue isn't fundamentally a housing problem. Normal people who lose their jobs don't opt to live out on the street in squalor for months or years. Drug addicts will trash any housing you put them into.

If you don't arrest drug addicts when they break the law and force them to get some kind of treatment, 99.99% will never ever do it on their own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw&t=27s

When people fall from respected good jobs and can’t tolerate McJobs it does not take much for this to happen. Will a laid off engineer behave the same way as a drug addicted drunk bum ... no but the drunk bums bring visibility to the issue which I needed. Under employment is rampant and people are sick of it

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by mirage1287

I was actually about to post the Seattle video as well, got beat to it! I think a lot of cities are working to try to figure out the right answer and clearly there isn't a universal solution. However...the right answer is not opening up public areas to allow open camping.

Think about the ramifications of that for a moment - not only will it become a potential safety issue in places like parks, but it's also opens up greater risk of public health issues. Not only are there insufficient restroom facilities to allow for open park living but as those above have already raised, needles/drug paraphernalia will become a problem too. If you don't think those problems will happen in Denver...again look at what's already happened with Skid Row in LA and tent cities in Seattle. I'm not morally opposed to equality and everyone having a place to live - but I also don't want to worry about my dog stepping on a needle while walking through a park or my significant other feeling scared about running down a public street in the evening.

I do think that as Denver COL continues to go up, this problem will only get worse. But rather than opening up all public spaces for people to camp the City needs to be more proactive about creating low-income housing and more funding for assistance programs. But we also can't ignore the issue that drugs play into all of this. Like the point made above, there's a subset of the homeless population that does not want to go into shelters/housing assistance programs because they're battling drug/addiction problems.

That’s a nice white washed answer. So then where do they go? Ok arrest the drug addicts, what about people that are not breaking real laws ... is that when the city makes up bogus laws to criminalize behavior that is enevitable for homeless people? Fortunately the federal Supreme Court ruled this unconstitutional, the new battle will be should homeless be compelled to go to shoddy shelters with bed bugs no ac etc?

We are getting really close to ussr/nazi fascism with white washed language in order to preserve greedy business interests.

[emm74]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

Busting people for lagit crimes like drugs is valid. Don’t like people being down on their luck, you get to smell poo and pee and see tents in the parks.

This is not designed to fix it, it’s designed to put it in your face so that people are forced to really figure it out not just do a couple little things.

Everyone who has half a brain cell knows why this is happening but people are to greedy to actually do anything.

No, as a matter of fact I don't have to smell pee and poop in public parks. That's the current law, and most people I know are going to vote to maintain that. And it appears you don't even live in Denver, so you have zero idea of whether or not the homeless issue is already in our faces. Newsflash, it is. And nope, having the homeless take over the parks and make Denver a place no one wants to live isn't going to be the mechanism to fix it.

But I'll be sure to tell the people at the food bank my teenager and I volunteer at every week just how greedy we are when they are hugging me and thanking me for listening to them and helping them.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by emm74

No, as a matter of fact I don't have to smell pee and poop in public parks. That's the current law, and most people I know are going to vote to maintain that. And it appears you don't even live in Denver, so you have zero idea of whether or not the homeless issue is already in our faces. Newsflash, it is. And nope, having the homeless take over the parks and make Denver a place no one wants to live isn't going to be the mechanism to fix it.

But I'll be sure to tell the people at the food bank my teenager and I volunteer at every week just how greedy we are when they are hugging me and thanking me for listening to them and helping them.

Might want to check out the constitutional precedent that’s already been set.

The next battle is can states force people into shelters against their will

This is not a state issue itsca federal issue and states and munis are going to have their wee wees stepped on.

I went to school in Colorado and friends tell me housing and jobs are an absolute **** show. McJobs and gillon dollar shacks just like Cali now.

Enjoy

Btw my town is no different, just more pure greed buy mega corps

I would like to see drug addicts arrested to remove people like yours, tired arguments about druggies so we can shed light on **** poor wages and under employment

[EastwardBound]

Let them visit Portland or Seattle and see the homeless situation on the streets there. The truth is, these sort of initiatives only lead to another pull factor, making the city more attractive to transients by making it 'easier' to be a transient.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by EastwardBound

Let them visit Portland or Seattle and see the homeless situation on the streets there. The truth is, these sort of initiatives only lead to another pull factor, making the city more attractive to transients by making it 'easier' to be a transient.

Your not paying for it, these people don’t get any services or very little.