So-called "Right to Survive" Initiative seems to be popular (Denver: crimes, how much)

[Phil P]

I get the feeling that homeless rights advocates have never really spent time around these people. They are a moral failure, on top of every other kind of failure. They ask for everything, harass everyone, give nothing, throw what they don't want or are done with out on the street, and refuse to take care of themselves. All these people could get out of their situation if they had the willpower to. They don't. They like being there, being leeches. And the people that "try to help them out" are only enabling them and their habits.

It's important to differentiate between people currently without a home and urban campers. The people who are really trying to better themselves, achieve housing, and move on are NOT the ones you see out there with the signs, screaming downtown, and looking like filth.

The city / metro of Denver does need to look at how to address the housing affordability problem. Despite the good economy, there are people out there who have gotten the short end of the stick and can use assistance. However, it does NOT need to turn the other cheek and refuse to address the crap the urban campers people create and tie the hands of people who address the problem or business who lose customers because of them.

I feel like Denver's made some pretty decent progress and cleaning up the homeless problem downtown in the 3 years I've been here. I'd hate to see it go the other way.

[Quietude]

Well, it will be interesting when their ranks swell with the terminally underemployed who don't have mental, drug, relationship etc. issues.

[Mike from back east]

Everyone, please keep it civil.

Argue the merits of the proposed law from your perspective of it being a positive or a negative.

[emm74]

I was already inclined to vote against it for admittedly personal quality of life reasons - we've had people camping in local parks who have left drug paraphernalia including syringes, and human excrement, in our local parks where people go with their small children and dogs.

But based on the link I posted up thread to the Denver Rescue Mission statement on it, reading what people who have dedicated their careers to helping this population have to say makes it seem like a real lose/lose scenario IMO. Yes, a lot more needs to be done, but this isn't going to do anything to fix the actual problems of homelessness and in the worst case scenario, it turns Denver into a less desirable place to live, property values tank, tax revenues drop and then there is even less money and political will to put towards fixing this issue.

[mysticaltyger]

You don't want to do this. Watch this recent documentary about Seattle that's gone viral:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by blaserbrad

Where are they supposed to go then?
Does the city of Denver provide adequate housing for homeless or low income individuals?
My guess is no, or this would be much less of an issue.

In many cases, they're homeless because they're addicted to drugs.

They should be given the option for jail or drug treatment.

The documentary Seattle is Dying talked about how Rhode Island (hardly a hotbed of right wing conservatism) doesn't let drug addicts live on the streets. When they break the law, they get the option of jail or drug treatment. They get tons of support and a choice of 3 different medications to keep them off drugs. They get continued mandatory support when they get out of prison.

The Seattle documentary talks about how allowing squatters costs the county about $1 Billion a year. Much of the money is wasted on arresting people and then having them get let right out again. Money spent on evacuating and cleaning up camps only to have them pop up elsewhere. Money spent on emergency room treatment for drug overdoses only to send them back out on the street so they can use drugs some more. Even one of the homeless people interviewed in the documentary said that 100% of the people camping on the streets were in various stages of addiction.

People have to understand that a good chunk of the homeless issue isn't fundamentally a housing problem. Normal people who lose their jobs don't opt to live out on the street in squalor for months or years. Drug addicts will trash any housing you put them into.

If you don't arrest drug addicts when they break the law and force them to get some kind of treatment, 99.99% will never ever do it on their own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw&t=27s

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

In many cases, they're homeless because they're addicted to drugs.

They should be given the option for jail or drug treatment.

The documentary Seattle is Dying talked about how Rhode Island (hardly a hotbed of right wing conservatism) doesn't let drug addicts live on the streets. When they break the law, they get the option of jail or drug treatment. They get tons of support and a choice of 3 different medications to keep them off drugs. They get continued mandatory support when they get out of prison.

The Seattle documentary talks about how allowing squatters costs the county about $1 Billion a year. Much of the money is wasted on arresting people and then having them get let right out again. Money spent on evacuating and cleaning up camps only to have them pop up elsewhere. Money spent on emergency room treatment for drug overdoses only to send them back out on the street so they can use drugs some more. Even one of the homeless people interviewed in the documentary said that 100% of the people camping on the streets were in various stages of addiction.

People have to understand that a good chunk of the homeless issue isn't fundamentally a housing problem. Normal people who lose their jobs don't opt to live out on the street in squalor for months or years. Drug addicts will trash any housing you put them into.

If you don't arrest drug addicts when they break the law and force them to get some kind of treatment, 99.99% will never ever do it on their own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw&t=27s

Thank you!

[Westbound and Down]

As I recall we are all promised "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" but this proposal (as far as I understand it) seems to brush aside the fact that these rights are for ALL of us, and it seems like a proposal like this infringes on the rights of the non-homeless segment of society in promoting squatting rights, camping in public spaces, or whatever is suggested with such a law.

Address the root causes of homelessness, don't encourage or abet it. Easier said than done, I know, but still...

[2bindenver]

I think it won’t pass. Taste of Colorado has said if this passes they will be forced to cancel.

[mirage1287]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

So what’s the right answer?

I was actually about to post the Seattle video as well, got beat to it! I think a lot of cities are working to try to figure out the right answer and clearly there isn't a universal solution. However...the right answer is not opening up public areas to allow open camping.

Think about the ramifications of that for a moment - not only will it become a potential safety issue in places like parks, but it's also opens up greater risk of public health issues. Not only are there insufficient restroom facilities to allow for open park living but as those above have already raised, needles/drug paraphernalia will become a problem too. If you don't think those problems will happen in Denver...again look at what's already happened with Skid Row in LA and tent cities in Seattle. I'm not morally opposed to equality and everyone having a place to live - but I also don't want to worry about my dog stepping on a needle while walking through a park or my significant other feeling scared about running down a public street in the evening.

I do think that as Denver COL continues to go up, this problem will only get worse. But rather than opening up all public spaces for people to camp the City needs to be more proactive about creating low-income housing and more funding for assistance programs. But we also can't ignore the issue that drugs play into all of this. Like the point made above, there's a subset of the homeless population that does not want to go into shelters/housing assistance programs because they're battling drug/addiction problems.