History of the Pulaski, Regent park, Osborne, Von Steuban neighborhoods on the east side of Detroit (Warren: foreclosures, crime rates)

[camrongun]

Hello,


I was very interested in Detroit history by specific neighborhoods.
An area that has come to mind is the Neighborhoods that are surrounded or around or between 8 mile and 7 mile and van dyke to west and Kelly and Gratiot to the east( I hope my geography is good!). why I want to know is what is the history of those neighborhoods? when did the white flight( decade or specific years) occur? when did African Americans start moving in? how were these neighborhoods like in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's? were these neighborhoods good back in the day? are these neighborhoods still safe or are they dangerous and if so, how bad is it?


I know it's a big question, but i'm curious, thank you!

[Retroit]

Hopefully someone will provide more accurate data, but I'd say blacks started moving in in the mid-70s and became a majority in the mid-90s. Now it is mostly black, with the highest percent of whites on the eastern fringe.

Currently, the area to the north of State Fair (7 1/2 Mile) is in noticeably better condition than to the south especially near Gratiot. Also, the homes are nicer architecturally (brick instead of siding).

Crime is not as bad as most other parts of Detroit, but it does deteriorate quickly to the south and west. Not as safe as just across the border into Warren, Eastpointe & Harper Woods.

Back in the day, these were very nice neighborhoods. Most of the homes were built just after WWII. 7 Mile Road and Gratiot was a popular shopping area with Montgomery Ward as the anchor store. I grew up in Eastpointe (formerly East Detroit) in the 70s. We would frequently go shopping there, while now I wouldn't consider it. There was a hospital (Saratoga) at State Fair and Gratiot that I was born at and we always went to. It was closed for a while but is now open again as a medical facility. Across the street was a popular Italian deli (Giulio's) that catered to the numerous Italians that live in the area. Now a generic party store.

There seems to be a slight improvement in recent years as the city tears down dilapidated houses and businesses, and some new businesses are moving in. But it could still use some cleaning up.

Probably the only thing sustaining the neighborhood is people moving in from worse areas of Detroit.

[animatedmartian]

As you can probably tell from the name of the neighborhoods, the predominant population around the peak of these neighborhoods was Polish and German. A good percentage of the area was also Italian, generally along the Gratiot corridor. Blacks typically had trouble moving north of Harper/I-94 due to racism and an inability to afford newer homes. But by 1970, more blacks were becoming affluent and able to move across different parks of town.

In 1970, northeast Detroit was pretty much 100% white. By 1980, Von Steuben, for example, lost half its white residents and became 40% black (the total population change was a net loss in about 600 residents). Interestingly, by 2000 the median income for Von Steuben was about $46,000 and at that point there was less than a few hundred whites still living there. By 2012, the median income fell to about $30,000.

And actually, there's two reasons for that, prior to 2000, many city workers (a majority of whom were black) had to live within the city by law. Northeast Detroit among other areas were popular with city workers despite failing schools and increasing crime. But at some point (I forget which year), Michigan repeals this law and many parts of Detroit experience black flight, Von Steuben included. On top of that, the housing crisis of 2008 created many foreclosures in this area leading to a further increase in crime, vacant homes, and poverty.

These days, the northeast area of Detroit is considered the most dangerous area of the city and has high poverty and crime rates, especially along the Gratiot corridor. There's still sections of this area that have more or less stable blocks and community groups trying to improve the area, but overall, I wouldn't recommend people to move into this area until crime gets way down.

[camrongun]

Thank You guys so much for a good detailed answer! it just seems that people won't even bother going into detail with Detroit( the actual city limits). I don't like how a lot of people( at least I think a lot) call all of Detroit a ghetto. I'm sure this can't be the case. I would believe that there's still hard working people living in Detroit, and are the predominate African American race that abide by the law and not " thuggish", like some of society describes them to be. I want to be part of the help of Detroit improving because I love the city( even though im not from there) I was born in Louisville, KY and am currently a 20 year old college student in Arizona. But my mother comes from Detroit Metro. Because of that, we would always visit her friends and family( which my mother has parts of her family living all over the area, including many downriver suburbs and Rochester, St. Claire Shores etc. I hope you guys don't mind if i do have more questions in the future, Than you guys so much!

[Retroit]

Of course there are still a lot of good people, but there are also some bad people who ruin it for the good people who can only take so much before deciding to move. Metropolitan Detroit has a lot of new, inexpensive housing and has (at least historically) relatively high income, so people (white, black, and other) tend to move further and further out generation-by-generation. Much of the older housing in Detroit is undesirable, being built during boom times to house automotive industry workers. Poorly insulated, lead paint, asbestos, no garages, houses close together, small backyards, etc. The houses in the area you mantioned and around the perimeter are the best houses because they are newer, usually brick, with nice architectural details.

Ironically, the abandonment of large portions of Detroit will, I believe, make way for a great revival of the city. Large tracts of land are being opened up for development. Who knows, maybe 50 years from now Detroit will be one of the most modern cities in America. There are people who think so and who buy up large numbers of vacant lots at cheap prices hoping to cash in at a later date. Unfortunately, they don't always take care of the properties and the city doesn't always go after them.

Just another point I'd like to make on the racial issue. There is no doubt that the number of good African-Americans outweigh the bad. However, the proportion of bad to good is higher than other ethnicities, and this contrast is hard to ignore and should be addressed. However, it is culturally unacceptable for blacks to be critical of "black society". It is the current trend for blacks to blame all their troubles on whites. Now, while some of that blame is justified (most would not be here otherwise), no amouont of blaming others is going to change things. It will be up to blacks themselves to say "We need to stop killing and victimizing each other and blaming others. We need to rebuild our families and neighborhoods and not praise the thugs who get killed when they resist police arrest." There are too few voices expressing such things. The most vocal was Bill Cosby, but he's out for other reasons.

[camrongun]

When you said " Bad people ruining it for the good people", that was so spot-on true. Not to mention, the criminally inclined citizens embarrass those good people who live in the city. Now I don't now if you heard this or not, but their were a group of people passing around flyers stating " beware of entering Detroit" , or something like that. Hmmmmm? I wonder why that happened?, oh wait, maybe it's those criminally inclined people who ruin it for others..... there's some selfish people out in this world who ruin the world for others, you know that?

[Retroit]

I don't recall the flyer incident, and it would be a waste of paper since it is a commonly accepted belief that "Detroit is dangerous". But attitudes are changing. When I was your age (now 47) no one my age would even consider moving into the city. Now it has become quite the "hipster" thing to do, mostly to downtown, Midtown, the Riverfront, and Corktown. And as the suburbs begin to look more and more demographically like Detroit, the former dividing lines (like 8 Mile Road) are not so clear cut any more. A black family is as likely to consider moving out several miles from Detroit as they are to simply crossing the border into the suburbs. We are becoming more segregated along income lines than racial lines, so a prosperous black person will move to a prosperous area and a poor white person will move to a poor area, skin color not taking as great a role as it used to.

Another good thing about blacks moving out of the city is that they are disproving the stereotype that once a city becomes black it becomes dangerous. We now have several suburbs that have large black populations and they have nowhere near the crime that Detroit has. Blacks with good jobs tend to move out, leaving the un/underemployed blacks behind. This tends to make the inner city areas even more crime-ridden since there are less good blacks to moderate the bad. But it also allows the whites in the neighborhoods which the good blacks are moving to to dispell any lingering prejudices they may have.

[camrongun]

ok! also, i have some more questions. How is Eastpointe, MI like? and are there a lot of people of Italian decent in Detroit? i know these questions come across as random( sorry lol) but like i said earlier, im interested in Detroit!

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by camrongun

ok! also, i have some more questions. How is Eastpointe, MI like? and are there a lot of people of Italian decent in Detroit? i know these questions come across as random( sorry lol) but like i said earlier, im interested in Detroit!

Eastpointe is kinda of a typical blue-collar suburb. Some subdivisions have pretty nice brick housing while the rest of it is typical cheaper vinyl sided bungalows and ranches. It feels almost like there's an even percentage of black and white residents now, though not many other ethnicities. The name of the suburb used to be East Detroit, but because of the negative image of Detroit, it changed its name to Eastpointe to be more similar with the Grosse Pointes although there's no denying that's it's not anywhere near as nice as any of the Grosse Pointes.

Italians are pretty spread out across Metro Detroit these days, specifically within Macomb County. However, there's still numerous Italian-owned businesses that can be found on the east side of Macomb County.

[camrongun]

is Eastpointe dangerous or safe?