Couple of Questions about Detroit

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Just curious. I found out only half of Hartford's properties are taxable. The other half are tax exempt. Totally nuts. Anyone know what percentage of Detroit's properties are taxable and non taxable?

The percentage of tax exempt properties definitely is less than half, though I can't find an exact number. This might give you a rough idea though. A lot of the tax exempt properties are government owned (obviously the government isn't going to pay taxes to itself). This data is also a few years old, but you get the idea.

https://makeloveland.com/assessment/...base=satellite

[WILWRadio]

AnimatedMartian. Thanks for the info. Will read your posts this weekend. Getting ready to go to work.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

I think he's referring to Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr (whose birthday is today btw, interesting tidbit).

He was put in place by the state of Michigan to analyze and oversee Detroit's fiscal situation. He's the one that recommended to the governor that Detroit should file for bankruptcy. During Kevyn Orr's time as Emergency Manager, Detroit's elected officials had no say in any financial decisions.

Dave Bing was the mayor when Detroit went into bankruptcy and he really didn't do much because he mostly won for being known as a former Piston's player and having some business experience. Though Detroit's situation was way too big and too little too late to prevent what was to come. The mayor before Bing, Kwame Kilpatrick, was involved in a massive corruption scandal that sealed the deal for Detroit's descent into financial distress.

Detroit actually had elections during bankruptcy and the mayor that replaced Bing is our current Mayor Mike Duggan. He's the first white mayor Detroit has had since the 1970s and had experience turning around Detroit's Medical Center which had financial troubles.

Anyway, here's the issue that Mike Duggan wants to sue Kevyn Orr over.

Mayor Duggan: Kevyn Orr hid pension plan details; city may sue firm

Read the article about Duggan and Orr. A major mess. It doesn't sound like there is any precedent at City Hall when it comes to informing the incoming administration about any important fiscal issues that will have to be addressed immediately or near so.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

The percentage of tax exempt properties definitely is less than half, though I can't find an exact number. This might give you a rough idea though. A lot of the tax exempt properties are government owned (obviously the government isn't going to pay taxes to itself). This data is also a few years old, but you get the idea.

https://makeloveland.com/assessment/...base=satellite

Thanks. Detroit at 142 square miles has a lot more working in its favor than Hartford's measly 18 square miles. While the Hartford metro population is 1.4 million people and surrounded by a lot more (more people reside within a 2 hour drive of Hartford than any city in the country other than Philadelphia) it has no real room for growth unless it razes buildings and takes city owned properties and sells them to private investors. And that won't happen unless the fiscal problems are addressed.

While I have not been to Detroit I would guess that it has a lot of vacant lots and build able land in that 142 square miles. That makes it a more attractive city in which to buy property and develop or expand a business. Will likely attract a lot of new home owners at some point since the taxes are likely still more reasonable than most major cities in the country.

I've pretty much given up on trying to move back to Connecticut. It's a fiscal mess and it won't be fixed any time soon from what I've seen. Detroit's future appears to be brighter than Hartford at this point. Detroit has more going for it and in due time, I would suspect the rest of the country will see that.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

While I have not been to Detroit I would guess that it has a lot of vacant lots and build able land in that 142 square miles. That makes it a more attractive city in which to buy property and develop or expand a business. Will likely attract a lot of new home owners at some point since the taxes are likely still more reasonable than most major cities in the country.

The amount of vacant land is actually sort of a catch-22. In theory, it is pretty easy to buy land and build on it, but the issue is profitability.

Too small of a project, and the impact on the amount of vacant land being gobbled up is almost negligible meaning that there's essentially no effect on the neighborhood. A project that's very big also has no guarantee of being able to make a profit and possibly ending up abandoned anyway which will just drag the neighborhood further down. That's why a lot of projects in Detroit, especially downtown, have often depended on tax subsidies.

Even Dan Gilbert has said that he expects to lose money on his projects within the first few years like his planned Hudson's project. Of course being the businessman he is, that's why he has bought so many downtown properties and leased them out to other businesses to generate revenue. You could say so far he's been successful because he's managed to help drive down vacancy rates for office space which is now prompting the need for a new office building. However, there's still a gap between the profitable cost to build new and the current average rental rates, requiring Gilbert to still ask for more subsidies.

Anyway, translating that to the residential neighborhoods would be a lot harder. As I mentioned in my other post, the city is buying properties and fixing them up, but at a profit loss. The cost to build new on a vacant lot would be at an even greater profit loss. Even in more well off neighborhoods, people would likely want the new construction to have as high architectural standards as the existing buildings which of course would be more expensive. No one wants a trailer park in Palmer Woods, although that would be very profitable for the developer. Likewise, McMansions in the middle of desolate neighborhoods might generate fears of gentrification.

The irony is that makes Detroit sound like it has the problems of any typical growing city but headline population numbers wouldn't make it seem that way.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Read the article about Duggan and Orr. A major mess. It doesn't sound like there is any precedent at City Hall when it comes to informing the incoming administration about any important fiscal issues that will have to be addressed immediately or near so.

Heh, Detroit's city government in general was a mess. I think there was a news story that reported that the city's computers were still running versions of Windows XP or older in 2014. There was so many layoffs and department reorganizations going on before and during bankruptcy that it really reflected in the condition of the city. It was shameful what was and wasn't going on at city hall during that time.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Heh, Detroit's city government in general was a mess. I think there was a news story that reported that the city's computers were still running versions of Windows XP or older in 2014. There was so many layoffs and department reorganizations going on before and during bankruptcy that it really reflected in the condition of the city. It was shameful what was and wasn't going on at city hall during that time.

I've actually gone into client offices of the company I work for and some are still running DOS systems or Windows systems that predate XP. No kidding. Granted, most are small businesses but you'd think they might try to upgrade the computers if it could improve efficiency in their offices.

In any event, the clean sweep at City Hall should lead to a much improved and better run city in the future. That of course is contingent upon the city residents electing the right people.