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And since you don't rely on any studies, I'm wondering what you base your food choices on. The death statistics in the U.S. speak for themselves, the majority of deceased people every single year die of illnesses related to what they eat, to deny that is to say that all scientific research is worthless and we all know better than that.
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Correlation does not = causation. Even if it did people have been eating way more wheat, soy, corn & sugar in the past few decades than ever before. You could easily say that the health problems are caused from those foods and have nothing to do with animal protein. Most of the scientific research on diet IS worthless..it's a bunch of cherry picked data. If you eat McDonald's burgers and hot dogs everyday you WILL have health problems and you WILL die earlier. If you eat grass fed organic bison everyday you'll be stronger for it and your health will be perfectly fine. Not all meat is created equal. Not all grains are created equal.
Again, I don't care about research. I base my food choices on common sense. You're never going to convince me that a diet filled with whole foods like grass fed beef, lentils, quinoa, rice, hummus, ghee butter, coconut oil, lamb, steak, kale, sauerkraut, kombucha, ect..is unhealthy. I feel strong eating all those things, I feel good- and anyone who wants to bring up a study telling me I'm wrong can can take that study and shove it- That goes for the paleo/keto crowd too. I've tried it and I feel much better with legumes and grains in my diet.
I understand that even seemingly "clean" meat may not be as clean as we think it is..but the same exact thing can be said for fruits, grains and vegetables. If you eat anything, you have blood on your hands. Just think of all the animal habitat that has been wiped out in the midwest due to soy production. Think of all the rodents that die every year under large-scale agriculture. Something always has to die for you to continue living. That's just a fact of life.
Just for fun google "China Study Flaws" and skim everything that comes up..it's a lot.
Correlation does not = causation. Even if it did people have been eating way more wheat, soy, corn & sugar in the past few decades than ever before. You could easily say that the health problems are caused from those foods and have nothing to do with animal protein. Most of the scientific research on diet IS worthless..it's a bunch of cherry picked data. If you eat McDonald's burgers and hot dogs everyday you WILL have health problems and you WILL die earlier. If you eat grass fed organic bison everyday you'll be stronger for it and your health will be perfectly fine. Not all meat is created equal. Not all grains are created equal.
Again, I don't care about research. I base my food choices on common sense. You're never going to convince me that a diet filled with whole foods like grass fed beef, lentils, quinoa, rice, hummus, ghee butter, coconut oil, lamb, steak, kale, sauerkraut, kombucha, ect..is unhealthy. I feel strong eating all those things, I feel good- and anyone who wants to bring up a study telling me I'm wrong can can take that study and shove it- That goes for the paleo/keto crowd too. I've tried it and I feel much better with legumes and grains in my diet.
I understand that even seemingly "clean" meat may not be as clean as we think it is..but the same exact thing can be said for fruits, grains and vegetables. If you eat anything, you have blood on your hands. Just think of all the animal habitat that has been wiped out in the midwest due to soy production. Think of all the rodents that die every year under large-scale agriculture. Something always has to die for you to continue living. That's just a fact of life.
Just for fun google "China Study Flaws" and skim everything that comes up..it's a lot.
I've heard everything you said before but I didn't come here to get into a debate, keep in mind that you were the one trying to contradict the advice I gave about a plant-based diet. However, I will make a few comments before I'm done with this subject as it's NOT my intention to convince you of anything.
With your type of totally skeptical reasoning then it would be also worthless for anyone to go to college/university to get a superior education because a lot of the knowledge we have today comes from different scientific STUDIES, observations and findings. I imagine it's useless to make you see that whichever choices you've made for the diet you follow now didn't come out of the blue, that you must've had some reason to try some things, like coconut oil, which was not popular years ago. I bet you decided to try because of things you read, whether testimonies or whatever, but being a VCO user myself I know in the articles where they promote it STUDIES are mentioned regarding the medium chain fatty acids and other supposedly beneficial components in it. Same with kombucha, I bet you drink it because scientific studies have told us that the beneficial bacteria in it are good for our health. I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
Regarding soy, perhaps you ignore or want to willfully overlook that the large majority of soy grown in this country goes to feed the animals most people eat. And yes, it's totally impossible to eliminate the accidental death of certain animals, maybe we don't really need so many rodents, y'know. But it's ironic that you're only concerned about those rodents because it seems like a good argument against those of us who have chosen a totally plant based diet. You probably don't bat an eye when humans kill a bear or other animals that get too close to people who are living in what used to be THEIR habitat. I guess it's also ok to run animals off and even destroy the rain forest to grow more food for factory farm animals as the demand has grown along with the increase of the world's population.
The point of veganism is not to eliminate all animal death as that would be impossible, but to try to eliminate an unnecessary cycle of violence that exists only due to human selfishness. Eating meat is really a psychological addiction for many, the way I've seen people get so angry just by anyone mentioning a plant-based diet proves it. If you were so sure of your choices and had any respect for other people's choices you would not be so rattled because I suggested a plant-based diet to the OP. No, you had to "start something" because you'd prefer that nobody ever suggested that eating animal foods is wrong. More power to you if you feel strong now but you can't tell yet how long you're going to live nor what quality of life you'll have in 20 or even 10 years, so if I were you I'd just not act like you know what your future will be. And btw, I'm not implying that I expect to live to 100 because I changed my diet, I already did a lot of damage during all the previous decades that may not all be undone. What I'm concerned about is a better quality of life for however many years I may have, and since I've already been on the other side I know it's going to be better, not worse.
The point of veganism is not to eliminate all animal death as that would be impossible, but to try to eliminate an unnecessary cycle of violence that exists only due to human selfishness. Eating meat is really a psychological addiction for many, the way I've seen people get so angry just by anyone mentioning a plant-based diet proves it. If you were so sure of your choices and had any respect for other people's choices you would not be so rattled because I suggested a plant-based diet to the OP. No, you had to "start something" because you'd prefer that nobody ever suggested that eating animal foods is wrong. More power to you if you feel strong now but you can't tell yet how long you're going to live nor what quality of life you'll have in 20 or even 10 years, so if I were you I'd just not act like you know what your future will be. And btw, I'm not implying that I expect to live to 100 because I changed my diet, I already did a lot of damage during all the previous decades that may not all be undone. What I'm concerned about is a better quality of life for however many years I may have, and since I've already been on the other side I know it's going to be better, not worse.
Yeah, I get angry when people try to lecture me about food. To me veganism is a cult, not a diet, and it's something I don't want to be a part of. This is a thread on weight loss and health, not veganism.
Yes, you'll lose weight on a vegan approach just like you will on a paleo or Keto diet but that does NOT mean it is healthy, sustainable weight loss. So many people have torn their health apart on fad diets and it is not something to be taken lightly. And you just come on here and act like it's the ONLY answer to health and weight loss. That's dangerous, especially considering the OP is only 17.
"The best thing you could do for yourself is to eliminate ALL animal foods and go completely plant-based, but it most be whole foods (not processed) or as few processed foods as possible."It's just not true...
When you say that you feel terrible on an only plants diet I have no way of knowing what you were eating. After all potato chips and oreos have no animal ingredients in them but no one would say they are healthy, right? Not saying that's how you ate, just saying it could mean anything. And there could be a reason for you to not feel good when you first switched to an only plants diet: your gut flora. When we consume lots of animal products, especially for a long time, our gut flora will include a lot of not so beneficial strains that feed on said products, so when we switch to just plants we could be seriously lacking the good bacteria necessary to help us digest our new foods. In some cases a period of adaptation may be necessary and in others taking probiotics that provide the needed strains for an indefinite time may be necessary. Of course, it may seem easier to go back to the old way of eating but that may not be the healthiest choice long term.
I've tried it a few times. After a few meals, even when carefully planning for food combining to get a variety of amino acids, I have very low energy and feel exhausted.
I am a pretty healthy eater, I pay attention to eating lots of produce and reducing processed foods.
I am generally borderline anemic - so I need to pay extra attention to iron absorption.
I feel best when I eat meat. That doesn't mean I don't eat plenty of plants - I do. I don't eat meat at every meal - it depends. I love legumes and mix those in. I eat lots of veggies. But eliminating the meat completely doesn't work for me.
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I know I'm treading on "dangerous" ground here and I really don't mean to be critical of you or anyone since I was an "omnivore" for most of my life, but I need to say that eating meat is not just a personal thing, we think it is because a lot of things are hidden from us. It's really not right to support an industry that hurts not only the animals who are badly abused and in poor living and health conditions in factory farming, but because of billions of people whose health goes down the tube not just because of consuming the meat but due to consequences of many of their unethical practices, such as spraying animal waste in the air, as is the case with the hog farms in NC where it's done over mainly communities of AAs and Hispanics making this a human rights issue because the people there are suffering all kinds of respiratory diseases including lots of cases of cancer. Even if one chooses "grass fed" there's no guarantee the animals are treated much better and/or are any healthier unless one knows for sure the meat comes from local farmers. The very negative impact on the environment, not just due to pollution but to the huge consumption of natural resources (i.e., water), of growing animals for food makes it totally unsustainable as the world's population keeps growing. So if we think about others at all, even if only our own children and their future, it would be good to reconsider such a choice. I suggest that you watch the documentary "Cowspiracy" or "Meat the Truth" on YT for detailed information about such an impact. I had no idea about a lot of things shown there until I watched them after I switched to an all plant-based diet so I'm sure the majority of people don't know them either.
I am very aware of the problems of factory farms and meat production, and I subscribe to the concept of "know your maker." I eat mostly locally raised meat and produce. Luckily our office catering is also good about sourcing too - so it makes it pretty easy to follow for my meals.
While I understand the political and ecological benefits of eating a plant based diet - and that is why I keep trying - I need to be realistic and I know I don't feel great eating only plants, so I don't. Meat in moderation and as a comdiment for me. And plants taste a lot better with the pork fat I reserve from other dishes! Less waste too.
Yeah, I get angry when people try to lecture me about food. To me veganism is a cult, not a diet, and it's something I don't want to be a part of. This is a thread on weight loss and health, not veganism.
Yes, you'll lose weight on a vegan approach just like you will on a paleo or Keto diet but that does NOT mean it is healthy, sustainable weight loss. So many people have torn their health apart on fad diets and it is not something to be taken lightly. And you just come on here and act like it's the ONLY answer to health and weight loss. That's dangerous, especially considering the OP is only 17.
"The best thing you could do for yourself is to eliminate ALL animal foods and go completely plant-based, but it most be whole foods (not processed) or as few processed foods as possible."It's just not true...
Also, being a vegan doesn't work for everyone. I know lots of former vegans - they felt healthier when they reincorporated meat. I also know other vegans and vegetarians that feel great not eating meat and feel bad when they eat it. Everyone has different biochemistry.
One thing that is good for everyone iseating more plants, especially ones in season, and less processed food. So let's focus on that.
Same with kombucha, I bet you drink it because scientific studies have told us that the beneficial bacteria in it are good for our health. I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
Nope, I drink it because it's a healthy, natural, drink that tastes great. I even brew it myself.
But why does that even matter? This thread isn't about me...
Also, being a vegan doesn't work for everyone. I know lots of former vegans - they felt healthier when they reincorporated meat. I also know other vegans and vegetarians that feel great not eating meat and feel bad when they eat it. Everyone has different biochemistry.
One thing that is good for everyone iseating more plants, especially ones in season, and less processed food. So let's focus on that.
I experimented with being vegan. It was supposed to be for just 30 days to see how I handled it. Turns out it was pretty easy and I felt great. I lost a few pounds that I thought would never come off. I lasted 4 months and then I had to stop. I was not getting enough b12 even with the various supplements. My doctor told me it might be better if I went back to eating meat. So I am back to being an omnivore, but I really do not eat a whole lot of meat.
I especially want to start losing weight again because I'll be starting college in about sixth months. Thank you for your help and advice.
I'm not a doctor; this is not medical advice, just what I do.
OP, college requires tons and tons of walking. I highly suggest that you go get a manual pedometer (they are around $15) and start walking a little each day. I started with 10 minutes and slowly increased it. Obviously, if you have a medical condition, see a doctor, but I've found that many people can walk for 10 - 15 minutes on flat sidewalks without injury.
Record your steps in a notebook. Easy! Example: 7/7 2220 steps. If your pedometer records miles you can write those down, but do record what you walk each day to keep yourself accountable and to make sure you are starting to increase it over time. Don't worry about speed right now!
Try to walk every day. This is not about walking fast at this point or jogging. It's about beginning to build up your leg muscles. The key is to do it daily. If it's raining, go to a mall or indoor track or get some rain gear.
Your goal is to work up to being able to walk for a solid hour without getting tired.
Keep up this walking. If you find you aren't walking as many steps as you were in the summer, go to the college track. Keep walking. Try to get faster!
You've been given some great advice about eating, but here's mine: get rid of the junk. Try not to have "cheat days" until you can walk a solid hour without tiring. After that, just concentrate on eating the appropriate diet for you.
That's it. No need to join a gym just yet. Walking is powerful! If you do it daily, you will start to see results after the first week.
Yeah, I get angry when people try to lecture me about food. To me veganism is a cult, not a diet, and it's something I don't want to be a part of. This is a thread on weight loss and health, not veganism.
Yes, you'll lose weight on a vegan approach just like you will on a paleo or Keto diet but that does NOT mean it is healthy, sustainable weight loss. So many people have torn their health apart on fad diets and it is not something to be taken lightly. And you just come on here and act like it's the ONLY answer to health and weight loss. That's dangerous, especially considering the OP is only 17.
"The best thing you could do for yourself is to eliminate ALL animal foods and go completely plant-based, but it most be whole foods (not processed) or as few processed foods as possible."It's just not true...
Well, don't forget you were the one who started this so you can't feel angry now. But I understand to a point because I didn't want to be part of veganism when I didn't properly understand it. However, it's not a "cult", nor a religion, those are based on beliefs only, no proof, but there's a LOT of science backing up how healthy a whole plant based diet can be. And yes, this is not a thread about veganism but since you objected to my recommendation to the OP I had to defend it.
I'm sorry to have to contradict you again. Please do some research before you say that eating just plants cannot produce a healthy sustainable weight loss. During the over 20 years that I clung to believing low-carb "was the way" it proved to be neither healthy nor sustainable, I developed gallstones and hypothyroidism because the body DOES need a certain minimum of carbs, besides I always craved them. I don't care if you think it's not heatlhy, the fact that I got cured from depression that I suffered from for almost 4 decades and of hypothyroidism that I had for 2 decades, and that I have not gained any of the weight back but continue to lose (though slowly) is all I care about. I know you'll say "that's just you" but sorry, no. When I first began to change my diet I did a lot of searches and found tons of testimonies of people of all ages who'd lost weight on it and kept it off. It's really a matter of logic, plant foods are lower in calories, so as long as you don't eat junk foods and a lot of fat you will not gain the weight back.
The belief that all-plant diets are "dangerous" is outdated and unfounded. It's actually the opposite, lots of people have reversed heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, cancer, erectyle disfunction and many more with a whole food plant based diet. There's plenty of athletes, who demand a lot of their bodies, who have switched to all plant diets because they saw others were doing better than them and now they claim they're at their best. There's quite a few women who have conceived healthy babies and raised healthy kids on vegan diets. So I'd like you to show me proof of what you said but you'd have to do it with scientific facts and you're against that, so no more arguing about that.
I just hope the OP and other people who have never considered this option will be smart enough to do their own research to make up their own minds, the info's out there, it's not just hearsay.
Well, don't forget you were the one who started this so you can't feel angry now. But I understand to a point because I didn't want to be part of veganism when I didn't properly understand it. However, it's not a "cult", nor a religion, those are based on beliefs only, no proof, but there's a LOT of science backing up how healthy a whole plant based diet can be. And yes, this is not a thread about veganism but since you objected to my recommendation to the OP I had to defend it.
I'm sorry to have to contradict you again. Please do some research before you say that eating just plants cannot produce a healthy sustainable weight loss. During the over 20 years that I clung to believing low-carb "was the way" it proved to be neither healthy nor sustainable, I developed gallstones and hypothyroidism because the body DOES need a certain minimum of carbs, besides I always craved them. I don't care if you think it's not heatlhy, the fact that I got cured from depression that I suffered from for almost 4 decades and of hypothyroidism that I had for 2 decades, and that I have not gained any of the weight back but continue to lose (though slowly) is all I care about. I know you'll say "that's just you" but sorry, no. When I first began to change my diet I did a lot of searches and found tons of testimonies of people of all ages who'd lost weight on it and kept it off. It's really a matter of logic, plant foods are lower in calories, so as long as you don't eat junk foods and a lot of fat you will not gain the weight back.
The belief that all-plant diets are "dangerous" is outdated and unfounded. It's actually the opposite, lots of people have reversed heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, cancer, erectyle disfunction and many more with a whole food plant based diet. There's plenty of athletes, who demand a lot of their bodies, who have switched to all plant diets because they saw others were doing better than them and now they claim they're at their best. There's quite a few women who have conceived healthy babies and raised healthy kids on vegan diets. So I'd like you to show me proof of what you said but you'd have to do it with scientific facts and you're against that, so no more arguing about that.
I just hope the OP and other people who have never considered this option will be smart enough to do their own research to make up their own minds, the info's out there, it's not just hearsay.
So everyone who isn't vegan is low carb now? You do know that you can eat meat and still eat plenty of veggies and starches at the same time, right?
You started the debate with this statement- "The best thing you could do for yourself is to eliminate ALL animal foods and go completely plant-based." When I said, "hey wait up, that's probably not true," you tried to shove a bunch of studies in my face. Google "The China Study flaws" and skim over everything that pops comes up..For the 30th time, again, I'll say it 100 times if I have to- I DON'T TRUST DIET RELATED RESEARCH." Stop telling me to do research lol. I'm too in tune with my body to let some biased study dictate what I eat.
Last edited by Jame22; 07-18-2017 at 04:49 PM..
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