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Have you ever read or seen any criminal not take a plea deal that would give them less time?
Not to make light of it but we have murderers, gang bangers etc etc etc that take plea deals every day, so why wouldn't he?
If I'm not mistaken didn't this come down to Federal charges and not the State of Virginia charges/ Been awhile so I forget
Yes, other criminals take plea deals. They are exceedingly common. That doesn't change the fact that Vick didn't have to take one one, nor did he have to plead not guilty to begin with.
Point being that real remorse includes taking responsibility for your actions. Vick is not sorry he hurt those dogs...if he understood that dogs feel pain and suffer, he would never have been involved in dog fighting in the first place. Vick is sorry he got caught, like most other criminals.
How can you forgive (general you) a person who has no remorse? Whose only regret is that he was caught, who fought his punishment, and who suffered nothing in the end? We come down harder on children who break windows or vases and expect more contrition.
He says he is sorry now but I wonder if he is only sorry he got caught.
we will never know if the man is truly sorry because we're not in his head -- only he knows that. Anything else is pure speculation on the part of anyone other then himself.
he has gone to jail and done his time (which is what we ask of anyone who commits a crime). He has been given a new lease on life by concentrating efforts on his football and working with one of those animal rights orgs, humane society or something like that.
as an avid dog lover/owner myself, I would never buy anything he has (jerseys, shoes, etc.). Ever. That doesn't mean I think he should own dogs or any other animal again. He has lost that particular privilege. He has permanently lost fans and support and that's punishment for the rest of his professional career and social status. But that doesn't mean I think he should never be allowed back into society, we're not talking about Jeffery Dahmer here. A line in the sand has to be drawn.
“It was a very nervous time for me. I knew I was going to try to lie my way through the whole dogfighting case and see if money, good lawyers, and manipulating the system could get me out of the position I was in — which was a terrible position.”
I will never respect him. I will never forgive him. he is a bad bad man who should not be getting a chance to do what he loves--playing football. With that said, I saw this the other day after the NE and Philly pre-season game when he got hit pretty hard and it made me smile.
“It was a very nervous time for me. I knew I was going to try to lie my way through the whole dogfighting case and see if money, good lawyers, and manipulating the system could get me out of the position I was in — which was a terrible position.”
I prefer people to tell the truth when they write a memoir, otherwise there's no point in writing one. Obviously he was speaking about his mindset during the time this was going on. Most celebrities who get into trouble with the law think the exact same thing -- they just don't write it in a book.
See, this is why I don't forgive him. (I do think he should be allowed to play football, just as other ex-cons are still allowed to work. I just, personally wouldn't hire him, and lost respect for the Eagles for hiring him.)
He says he's sorry for lying, breaking the law, hurting his kids, being a jailbird. He has never once said a word about being sorry for causing death and tremendous pain to so many dogs. I know he grew up with it, among people who tell each other the dogs don't feel pain like we do, etc. I know some of these people in this sick and twisted culture say they love the dogs. I don't understand it, but I know it's there. I can't forgive any of them. If they truly turned their life around and spoke out and gave all they could to change things, that would be different.
I prefer people to tell the truth when they write a memoir, otherwise there's no point in writing one. Obviously he was speaking about his mindset during the time this was going on. Most celebrities who get into trouble with the law think the exact same thing -- they just don't write it in a book.
Yes, I recognize that this was a reflection of his thoughts at the time. But you're assuming that I think that other celebrities who have crossed the line are any more deserving of forgiveness than Vick is, and I don't.
Vick now calls his owns actions inhumane and cruel. But that's because he's been told by society that it was...he was somehow unable to come to this conclusion until he was caught and tried. It's like a man who murders someone and then expresses remorse...well, that's not exactly helpful is it? Even if he is sorry, so what? As others have pointed out, Vick can't change his past. Instead of seeing that as a reason why he should be forgiven, I see it as the reason not to. He can't take back the inhumane, cruel actions he committed...he can't bring back those dogs or erase the suffering of the survivors.
If I walk up to a random person on the street and slap them across the face, no amount of 'sorrys' is going to take away the sting. But let's say I was having a completely awful, awful day. The person I slapped reminded me of someone who hurt me in the past.
As soon as my palm impacts that person's face, I realize what I've done. I fall to my knees in horror and sob out how sorry I am. The police are called and I'm arrested for simple battery. I plead guilty and serve a short period in jail. The victim forgives me, but I can't forgive myself yet. I end up going the victim's house for a month to help with any odd chores they need done. I voluntarily and without prompting sign up for anger counseling.
That's remorse. The immediate acknowledge of your wrongs and true shame at what you've done. Acceptance of punishment without fighting it or attempting to lie your way out of it. An attempt to reconcile with your victims and to improve yourself so that such things never happen again.
The person who does these things deserves a second chance. But let's say I slap a random person, then lie and say I never did such a thing despite witnesses and evidence. I fight the charge in court all the way and get it knocked down to a single day in jail.
Oh, and instead of one victim there were actually dozens...I was slap happy most days but luckily most of my victims never came forward, so I'm just going to ignore those. Some did come forward but there was no evidence, so I'm definitely not going to admit to it...what am I, an idiot? I'll tell them to their faces in court that they're lying and I never saw them before because I don't want to serve more jail time.
I'm a political figure in my town, so when everything is said and done I make sure to shake my original victim's hand, maybe kiss a few babies...I even throw some money in toward building a new domestic violence shelter.
Is that remorse?
And btw...the issue with Vick isn't just dog fighting. Dog fighting is cruel and terrible, but if you read the history of it some dog fighters did take care of their dogs. They were fighters but also pets, and an injured dog was doctored and a dying one put down swiftly. Vick went out of his way to torture dogs in a manner that goes beyond even the inherent cruelty of the 'sport.'
when he took the deal it was actually completly taken out of the states hands, the dog fighting charges were all dropped, TAX evasion is a federal crime (even when state taxes are involved) the feds pretyt much said "hey plea to screwing us over on the money you owe us and well just forget about all that silly dog torture stuff...
i DONT think the man shoudl rot in jail forever, i do think he deserves to Make an attempt at living a semi normal life...
I dont htink he shoudl be allowed to own a pet of ANY kind and the fact they allowed him to get that puppy after what he did is in my mind almost as ba as what he himself did to the dogs...
I DONT think the man is "rehabilitiated" in numerous intevrveis since that time, hes still shown NO true remoirce, he still hodls on to the "i dont knwo why its such a big deal" and "its what i grew up around" aspects that prove hes learnt nothing about cruelty to animals
I also dont think anyone that can ELECTROCUTE a dog, hang a dog with cord, tie them up in trees ect and NOT think "theres something not right with me that i enjoy this!" is NOT all right in the head...a NORMAL person cannot tortue something and not think...hmm, mabe theres something wrong with me...
Sure he grew up wiht dog fighting (or at least thats what they say) but how oes that excuse the torture outside of the ring?! a NORMAL person in sane mind does not hook a dog up to an electrical source just to see what happens...
IN NORMAL society thats amental illnes and one hes aparently sought no form of therapy to unerstand or control...
DO i think this means hes going to start doing this to people...not nessicarily (though studies do strongly tie animal abusers to a progression towards human abuse)
But i do think this man is Mentally unstable to be able to electrocute, hang, suffocate ect an innocent animal and not "see what the big deal is"
i think the fact he now continues to be allowed to be such a prominant public figure and a ROLE MOEL in the eyes of millions of kids is WRONG...
give it 10 years and only we will remember what this man did in the eman time millions of young impressionalbe fans will idolize him based on how well he can run with a ball (or kick or whatever it is he does in the game as i cant stand american football enough to have a clue what position he plays)
i feel the way with many celebrities, i dont think we shoul be allowing these people to contineu to be role moels and dols to our future generations with no clear consiquences for their actions simply because there rich and famous...
vick got months for what other people would have got YEARS for (on the tax evasion alone) had he not taken the plea, he probably still wouldnt have gotten anything more than a slap on the wrists while a normal person would have at minimum been banned form EVER owning an animal again...
again...i think the man is mentally ill, i dont think he feels one ounce of remorse for the torture of those animals and i dont think hes even attempted to give anyone any reason to think otherwise...
Yes, I recognize that this was a reflection of his thoughts at the time. But you're assuming that I think that other celebrities who have crossed the line are any more deserving of forgiveness than Vick is, and I don't.
Vick now calls his owns actions inhumane and cruel. But that's because he's been told by society that it was...he was somehow unable to come to this conclusion until he was caught and tried. It's like a man who murders someone and then expresses remorse...well, that's not exactly helpful is it? Even if he is sorry, so what? As others have pointed out, Vick can't change his past. Instead of seeing that as a reason why he should be forgiven, I see it as the reason not to. He can't take back the inhumane, cruel actions he committed...he can't bring back those dogs or erase the suffering of the survivors.
If I walk up to a random person on the street and slap them across the face, no amount of 'sorrys' is going to take away the sting. But let's say I was having a completely awful, awful day. The person I slapped reminded me of someone who hurt me in the past.
As soon as my palm impacts that person's face, I realize what I've done. I fall to my knees in horror and sob out how sorry I am. The police are called and I'm arrested for simple battery. I plead guilty and serve a short period in jail. The victim forgives me, but I can't forgive myself yet. I end up going the victim's house for a month to help with any odd chores they need done. I voluntarily and without prompting sign up for anger counseling.
That's remorse. The immediate acknowledge of your wrongs and true shame at what you've done. Acceptance of punishment without fighting it or attempting to lie your way out of it. An attempt to reconcile with your victims and to improve yourself so that such things never happen again.
The person who does these things deserves a second chance. But let's say I slap a random person, then lie and say I never did such a thing despite witnesses and evidence. I fight the charge in court all the way and get it knocked down to a single day in jail.
Oh, and instead of one victim there were actually dozens...I was slap happy most days but luckily most of my victims never came forward, so I'm just going to ignore those. Some did come forward but there was no evidence, so I'm definitely not going to admit to it...what am I, an idiot? I'll tell them to their faces in court that they're lying and I never saw them before because I don't want to serve more jail time.
I'm a political figure in my town, so when everything is said and done I make sure to shake my original victim's hand, maybe kiss a few babies...I even throw some money in toward building a new domestic violence shelter.
Is that remorse?
And btw...the issue with Vick isn't just dog fighting. Dog fighting is cruel and terrible, but if you read the history of it some dog fighters did take care of their dogs. They were fighters but also pets, and an injured dog was doctored and a dying one put down swiftly. Vick went out of his way to torture dogs in a manner that goes beyond even the inherent cruelty of the 'sport.'
I didn't say you think celebrities should be forgiven for their crimes. I said they often think the same exact thing he does they just don't write it for the public to read. Memoirs are supposed to paint a picture of a person's life and thoughts: the good, the bad and the ugly. There were other quotes if you bothered to read them; one where he talks about knowing he could openly lie to the Commissioner's face and get away with it. Is this a 'great' thing to admit? Of course not. But it's likely the truth as it was.
No one can take back any actions they do, not any one of us. If you walked up and slapped someone in the face, sorry is the best you can offer -- that is the point you are missing. Whether you are really sorry is neither here nor there because the other person doesn't know what's going on in your head, all they could do is HOPE that you mean it and move on already.....what you are basically saying is signing up for anger management counseling and cleaning someone's house for a month is sufficient enough to prove 'remorse,' so what? LOL. People voluntarily sign up for anger management all the time to stay out of jail -- no remorse required. Acceptance of punishment immediately or at your leisure doesn't not equate to remorse. Remorse is possible at any step during the process.
This isn't about forgiveness, no one is obligated to forgive Michael Vick, but there's a difference between forgiveness and moving on with life. Splitting hairs over whether Michael Vick is 'sorry' or not, whether or not he's remorseful is a waste of time because it's an answer you and I will never truly know, regardless of how many anger management classes or dog shelters he volunteers at.
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