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Ahh, but it's the AKC that a breeder must apply to for the registration papers of their litters,and it is those registration papers that allow breeders to make money off breeding!
So,if the AKC 'REQUIRED' all breeding stock to be tested and graded for congenital defects and refused to issue registration papers for poorly-bred litters from parents with bad congenital defects,buyers would not be going through the heartache and expense such as that shown in the video.
And 'IF' the AKC would insist that dog show judges adhere to their own 'breed standards' instead of placing dogs in the winner's circle, who absolutely do not fit that standard ,so breeding for ludicrous coat lengths,undersized or oversized dogs and the deformed stance of German Shepherds,would not be occurring!
Still not getting it. The AKC doesn't have the authority to control the Breed Clubs in any way they are a non-profit registry agency. Nor do they have any control over Judges other than issuing licenses to judge if they have done the work to become a judge and that work is controlled by the breed clubs. Again, you need to take up any issues you have with a specific breed with the BREED CLUB, they are the ones that control the standards NOT the AKC.
Don't get me wrong I agree about the GSD's and the poorly bred litters by any breed. But in the USA the AKC has no control over what each breed club agrees to.
For instance, in the UK the Bulldog breeders have banded together to adjust the standard and breed for healthier dogs. In Europe the breed clubs are working very hard to "fix" the catastrophic health issues of Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. In Germany, the Dachshund breeders must go through an incredible series of tests to bred their dogs and again it is NOT their registration agency it is their breed club that is requiring these. Here in the USA, there are a growing group of Dachshund breeders that are voluntarily going through the same process and importing Judges twice a year from Germany and issue their own pedigree based on what the judges find, they also still issue AKC papers. You can read about the testing they do here:North American Teckel Club These Dachshund breeders have healthy long lived dogs and can do the jobs they were bred to do and many others too. I have a friend who is on that list and her dogs compete in all the AKC venues and others too including dock diving! The dogs she breeds are healthy, long lived and active into their middle late teens.
I would love to see the American breed clubs follow what the Germans do with their Dachshunds and other breeds. You won't see a European GSD with the same confirmation as here. In fact the military and police import their GSD's from Europe and yet the GSD club of the US could care less and don't seem to be embarrassed by what's happening to their breed.
The AKC issues registration papers to breeders and their charter doesn't allow them to fight these issues the whole purpose is for them to remain "apolitical" so if you want to take up the fight to fix the breed issues take it up with the national breed clubs, they are the ones with the ability to address the issues.
If people quit buying these poorly bred dogs they will get the drift finally. Sadly most buyers in the USA are into instant "I want one", they do not do the research required to find a good breeder and investigate the breed it's self. I spend YEARS looking at different breeds talking with breeders, trainers attending dog shows talking with owners etc. before I consider purchasing a dog and if everyone got over the "I want one" because they saw the dog on TV or so and so celeb has one and did the work to find a good breeder and develop a relationship with that breeder then many of the problems would be solved.
I know I don't want a large dog, I know I want a short hair dog, I know I like the terriers better than other small breeds and I start from there. I've zeroed in on several breeds now and have started talking with breeders, gone to their homes to meet and greet their dogs. I'm now talking with the dogs they've bred and sold owners, I will continue this for several more years before I make a decision.
You can't force people to do what I do when looking for a pet, you can only educate them about breeding practices, what it takes to care for a dog, picking the right dog for you.
Is the AKC perfect - no, but in this country the breed standard is controlled by the breed clubs and until that changes your fight is with them and not the AKC.
Last edited by ReturningWest; 03-11-2014 at 08:59 AM..
Thank you for the info,but is there just one single breed club for each breed,or are there far too many to be able to get anything accomplished?
These people are very well aware of how they have destroyed the breeds,so the only way to get back at them is for everyone to refuse to pay money for any dog... period!Thereby putting the greedy breed destroying breeders out of business.
Believe me,it is much better to have a healthy mutt for a family,pet/companion,than,these deformed,and/or nut case misfit dogs that will cost a fortune in vet bills,and/or break your family's heart watching it suffer from congenital defects.
Maybe it's time we just let dogs be dogs and the heck with specialties that some greedy gus will always charge a premium price for. The info on each of the purebreds shows what disease[cancers,ect] and deformity-prone freaks the breeds have become.
Each breed's problems have only gotten worse over the decades,proving that breeders care only about the money,and dog shows are nothing but another outlet for 'soccer-mom mentalities', or jock-dads' to compete!And the politics on the dog show circuit,OMG!
If I get another pup/dog it will be a mutt from someone who who is giving it away!
Sadly, I have seen far too many people get shelter pups/dogs that are not fit mentally and/or physically to join a family!
Too often they have been taken from their mother/littermates when far too young to have been properly socialized and learned to have a soft mouth and normal behavior. They should stay together for 8-weeks. Older pups/dogs history is usually a mystery,so those from shelters are a crap-shoot for your chances of getting a pet without ingrained problems.
Yeah we all have heard the stories about how Benji and other famous dogs were shelter dogs,but those success stories are very rare and also had very knowledgeable trainers,not your average family.
Some may be interested in this book~The Dog Wars: How the Border Collie Battled the American Kennel Club by Donald McCaig
I am not a Christian,but I used to read the Bible and I never forgot reading this scripture~Deuteronomy 23:18 - Thou shalt not bring the hire of a *****, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God. I had to look it up with Blue Letter Bible to get the exact words,but there they are.Wonder how many 'professing Christians' breed and sell dogs?
Last edited by i_love_autumn; 03-11-2014 at 01:57 PM..
Each breed that is recognized by the AKC must have their own national breed club, if you go to the AKC web site you can find a link to each one. That is one of many requirements in order to get the breed recognized by the AKC.
There are still plenty of breeds out there that protect their breed and are relatively healthy. Getting a mutt is even more of a game of chance, they can be healthy or not. The "hybrid vigor" is a myth. The muttlies are often the off spring of poorly bred dogs to begin with and only perpetuate the problem.
What must be understood is that much of the health issues and their causes are recent discoveries in veterinary medicine. I'm now 63 and hip dysplasia was unheard of when I was growing up...not because it wasn't diagnosed but because the knowledge, cause and effect is only recent. Only recently was the "collie gene" uncovered. Modern vet medicine is evolving just like human medicine so more and more discoveries about cause and effect of health issues.
One issue comes to mind is the "Impressive" gene in Quarter Horses, it almost destroyed the breed, but the National QH club paid for researchers to find the cause and it took a while but they finally traced it back to one horse that was a popular stud. Now all QH's must have the test done and the results are on their papers. It is a good read if your interested just google HYPP. My point being is health issues can be resolved if the breed clubs step up to the plate. I know members of the Sheltie club have been instrumental in getting the word out about the "collie gene" in fact one of the local breeders is also a vet and she very involved in eradicating this from breeding lines.
The breeders I know spend a lifetime on their beloved breed like my friend who is a Dachshund breeder. She and others like her aren't in it for the money and they don't make money being a breeder. The byb breeders and puppy millers are the ones who are in it for money.
If the USA adopted the German methodology for breeding stock, byb's and puppy millers would disappear over night. It is a costly process, dogs must pass a confirmation test rating (nothing like the ones you see on TV) they must also preform a series of hunt tests to prove they can do the tasks they have been bred to do. They must also pass a basic obedience test. Then the cost of going to testing event would drive the breeders who are in it for money right out of business. I have been long advocating for this and continue to do so. If you are really interested do some research on how the Germans allow a dog to be registered for breeding. Any dog can still be registered but if they were a low test score no offspring could be registered.
The second part of solving the problem is education of the general public at the local, state and national levels. Not only about spay/neuter but also about vaccinations and flea/tick preventative, heart worms etc. I would love to see a sheet provided to every potential pet owner of the annual costs of vet care in their area. I would also like to see nutrition emphasized, few understand the importance and the more expensive kibble really isn't because you feed less yet I see grocery store and walmart brands fly off the shelves.
If every potential dog owner/breeder had the knowledge, I think we could go a long way to ending byb's and millers.
Few realize that most if not all breed clubs offer free mentorships for those who are interested, I've yet to visit a breed website where it isn't offered. These mentorships are by long time member/breeders who have spent a lifetime perpetuating healthy breeding practices. Some breed clubs like the GSD's are ignoring the issues and I really don't know what can be done about it other than not buy one.
My friend who is the Dachshund breeder recently found a mild defect in one of her puppies, after researching it and talking with her vet she realized this was a genetic problem. Keep in mind she rarely breeds and this puppy was a long awaited female. She spayed the dog and found it a pet home. That takes huge balls to re-think 30-40 years of your own bloodlines, she is now going over to Europe and importing after much research, phone conversations etc. She is the type of breeder we should all look for when looking for a dog no matter what the breed.
I also know of another breeder who did something similar in neutering her pick of the litter, not because he had health or conformation faults but she just felt his temperament was not quite what she wanted...again that takes a serious commitment to the breed to do something like that. These are the types of breeders we should all look for and they are out there in every breed.
I live in the rural south and it is horrific down here, I have dogs dumped on my road regularly many are pure bred dogs. The puppies are cute but buyers don't realize what it takes to own and care for a dog and they are dumped. Only in the last 5 years has our county adopted leash laws and they are poorly enforced. If you call about a loose stray you will be charged $500 plus vet bills to come get the dog unless you can prove who owns the dog. Nor do we have any kind of shelter. There are two neighboring counties that do have shelters and they are both kill shelters, both have volunteers who work very hard to get these dogs re-homed. I couldn't do it knowing some sweet dog's number is up.
The German method of breeding/registration requirements does sound wonderful and like a perfect example,but America always seems to be the 'DUNCES' of the world,so I doubt if we will ever see their standards adopted here!
Plus,I'm afraid that from what I have seen/read,I do not agree that breeders are not in it for the money. I have no doubt that there are 'some' who truly do want to preserve their breed,but far too few have that heart.
I agree that 'hybrid vigor' in mixed breed dogs is a total myth,however,I do believe that a mutt from 'unrelated' parents is much more likely to be free of the congenital problems of the inbred/purebred dogs. Inbreeding[father/daughter,mother/son,sister/brother] should be outlawed,IMO!
if you take a dog that has a medical issue, and breed to a totally unrelated dog who has a medical issue, chances are any puppies from that mating will have medical issues. Doesn't matter what breeds, combination of breeds or purebred.
You think that people who are allowing their mixed breed dogs to randomly make puppies with the neighbors mixed breed dog are really checking them for any health issues at all?
It's pure hyperbole that mutts are healthier then any purebred. Where is the science that tells us this?
Don't think the Germans or any other system out there doesn't have their back yard breeders who are in it for the $$. They certainly do!
if you take a dog that has a medical issue, and breed to a totally unrelated dog who has a medical issue, chances are any puppies from that mating will have medical issues. Doesn't matter what breeds, combination of breeds or purebred.
You think that people who are allowing their mixed breed dogs to randomly make puppies with the neighbors mixed breed dog are really checking them for any health issues at all?
It's pure hyperbole that mutts are healthier then any purebred. Where is the science that tells us this?
Don't think the Germans or any other system out there doesn't have their back yard breeders who are in it for the $$. They certainly do!
You would be very wrong about this, I am very familiar with their system and happen to know several and their USA counter parts. You can't get registration papers on a dog who has a low test score until the dog is neutered/spayed, these dogs are able to compete in companion events but can not be bred. BTW it is mandatory have your dog neutered/spayed and you must have a license to breed. In other words, per their breed clubs they must go through vigorous testing before the breed club will allow and recognize a breeding AND they also must get a license from their state/country. It's a totally different environment than we have here. There is no market for the BYB or puppy mill dog as they can't be issued papers, and if caught there are BIG fines.
I do know there are dis-reputable breeders out there. But the only breeders I know or care to know and cultivate and would want a dog from follow very stringent rules for breeding and they don't make a dime and are lucky to break even. They don't breed often and when they do they have spent years learning about bloodlines, are willing to neuter/spay dogs if there are issues even though it can be costly to a breeding program.
Someone out there certainly is supporting the byb and miller because they are still in business...so quite buying from them.
I don't know where this idea got started that Germany has mandatory spay/ neuter laws. It has no such laws. I'm going to repeat that. There are no spay /neuter laws in Germany. There are no laws on the books in Germany requiring sterilization of pets.
Maybe it stared with Cesar Millan who said that while he was in Spain he heard Germany had spay/ neuter laws. Does that make sense ?
If you actually lived in German for any length of time or visited enough you would note that virtually all dogs are unspayed and un-neutered. It's just not something they do. It's not something most of Europe does. In some European countries it it illegal to spay/ neuter unless there is medical necessity. .
German dogs cannot be registered unless approved for breeding by the breed club. However, there are plenty of unregistered dogs also being bred. In German Shepherds for example, the breed warden shows up when a litter is whelped from registered parents, counts the dogs, picks out 8, requires that you find a foster home for any in excess of 8 . He or she will also make sure you cull ( kill) any off colors such as blue, liver, white or any pups with a deformity. Then he or she permanently marks the dogs for identification and will be back a couple of more times to check on the litter. The breed warden has no authority to tell you to spay or neuter any of them, not does the breed club.
What happens to the pups in excess of 8 that will not be considered for registration? . Breeders usually try to place them with farmers in the hopes that they will be used for their original purpose. Do they go on spay/ neuter contracts- no. Will the farmer or whoever gets them, breed them? Maybe.
This population of unspayed/ un-neutered dogs goes everywhere in Germany. They are on trains, buses, stores, many restaurants, tour boats, etc. All perfectly behaved. Different culture, very different attitude of owner/ pet responsibility.
There are wonderful German breed clubs and I am pretty familiar with the registry there for my breed. However, there are dogs bred there that are not necessarily a part of that system and there are breeders who don't follow the rules and regs. Sorry, but it is true.
The breeds in Germany may have stayed truer to their original breed types, and in many cases that is a good thing. In some cases, the American bred dogs are just as good and many times suit the American needs better or just as well. Now I am talking hunting dogs, that I am familiar with.
But back to the health issues... please don't buy that mutts are healthier that is a sales pitch by the AR's and such. European dogs have their own health issues as well..... some of which have traveled across the pond to haunt us American breeders. No system is perfect, no where.
Always try to pick up second hand all breed books from the 60's and 70's...amazing what winning AKC dogs looked like then vrs what many of the breeds look like now.
Remarkably sad in many cases...but interesting.
Quite obvious why certain breed clubs fought tooth and nail against having their breeds recognized by the AKC.
Always try to pick up second hand all breed books from the 60's and 70's...amazing what winning AKC dogs looked like then vrs what many of the breeds look like now.
Remarkably sad in many cases...but interesting.
Quite obvious why certain breed clubs fought tooth and nail against having their breeds recognized by the AKC.
I have looked at many of my library's older breed books,and that is how I first discovered how the breed standards have changed.Very eye-opening! Some breeds today have been changed so much that it is not only ludicrous,but heartbreaking,how some can claim they want to 'improve' the breed,they are are involved with!
I know one thing,I am 63 yrs.old and never in my life have I ever known anyone personally whose mixed breed dogs ever had a problem with a single one of the heredity/congenital problems that I have seen owners of purebred dogs experience,so I have seen the proof throughout my life,that mixed breed dogs do not have the problems that INBREEDING causes!
I'm sure everyone knows of purebreds that have had very serious/costly health issues,and/or temperament problems.Plus anyone can read about any breed they wish and see the health issues each breed has.They exist because of~ INBREEDING!
Truly conscientious breeders[and there are some] who wouldn't dream of breeding closely related dogs are the only breeders who are not doing harm to their chosen breeds.
Until inbreeding is outlawed and the breeding stock is graded for congenital defects,and litters are not automatically registerable just because both parents regardless of quality are registered,the fitness of purebred dogs for even a family pet,will continue to decline!
Last edited by i_love_autumn; 03-15-2014 at 08:31 PM..
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