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Old 07-15-2014, 09:47 AM
 
578 posts, read 1,041,603 times
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I know this is a frequent topic... but I have a different spin.

Familiar "old dog peeing inside" story.. Started 18 mos or so ago in old house. Destroyed carpet and the old hardwood underneath. Consistently the same area. We tried the floor training pads but he made no connection to them and had a 10% chance of hitting them.

We just moved to a remodeled home and after a month of being good, he's started the inside peeing again.
We have $5000 in hardwood floors in the upper level and $1800 in carpeting in the lower level.

I really cant have our dream home destroyed... especially after my son and I spent 5 months doing the work ourselves

The vet says no UI/Bladder problems and he and a dog training expert immediately say its incontinence.
But incontinence means it just happens.. even in his own bed. He has never peed in his bed.

See...
In the old house he chose the same area. He knew enough about having to pee that he would walk there. Now in the new house he has chosen two spots (one in the lower carpet area and one in the upper-level hardwood) to pee. Its very clear he will mosey to the room we are not in to pee on the floor.

My opinion is our dog definitely knows he has to go as he will walk to his 2 specific spots.
(He really doesnt hang in our lower level family room. Just now I heard him coming down the steps as my wife was in the kitchen, and I am downstairs somewhat hidden in a big lounger... he walks to his favorite carpet pee spot behind me and peed.. argh.)

All that... I guess there's no win even if I am right?
yeah ya cant retrain a 15 yr old dog.
And yes there are doggy pad options...

Just looking for a miracle "Sure you can retrain an old dog" cure.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:42 AM
 
3,918 posts, read 2,554,134 times
Reputation: 8409
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellmark View Post
I know this is a frequent topic... but I have a different spin.

Familiar "old dog peeing inside" story.. Started 18 mos or so ago in old house. Destroyed carpet and the old hardwood underneath. Consistently the same area. We tried the floor training pads but he made no connection to them and had a 10% chance of hitting them.

We just moved to a remodeled home and after a month of being good, he's started the inside peeing again.
We have $5000 in hardwood floors in the upper level and $1800 in carpeting in the lower level.

I really cant have our dream home destroyed... especially after my son and I spent 5 months doing the work ourselves

The vet says no UI/Bladder problems and he and a dog training expert immediately say its incontinence.
But incontinence means it just happens.. even in his own bed. He has never peed in his bed.

See...
In the old house he chose the same area. He knew enough about having to pee that he would walk there. Now in the new house he has chosen two spots (one in the lower carpet area and one in the upper-level hardwood) to pee. Its very clear he will mosey to the room we are not in to pee on the floor.

My opinion is our dog definitely knows he has to go as he will walk to his 2 specific spots.
(He really doesnt hang in our lower level family room. Just now I heard him coming down the steps as my wife was in the kitchen, and I am downstairs somewhat hidden in a big lounger... he walks to his favorite carpet pee spot behind me and peed.. argh.)

All that... I guess there's no win even if I am right?
yeah ya cant retrain a 15 yr old dog.
And yes there are doggy pad options...

Just looking for a miracle "Sure you can retrain an old dog" cure.
Just because he hasn't urinated in his own bed doesn't mean it's not incontinence. It sounds to me like he can't hold it and he's going in "familiar spots". I've got a 14 year old dog that has incontinence problems, he's never gone in his bed and he tends to use the same spots when he has an accident (he also doesn't do it in front of me). It sounds a lot like what's going on with your dog.

How often are you letting him out? Is he urinating when he goes out or just sniffing around and not "doing his business"? I've found that my dog will go outside and then get distracted and not urinate. You may need to stand out there with him until he actually goes which is what I've started doing with mine. I would think that standing outside with him to make sure he actually goes along with letting him out more frequently would help.

Every dog I've had that has reached old age has had problems with bladder control.

Good luck.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:21 PM
 
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Have you tried meds for this condition.

I think it is called Propanalol?
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:15 PM
 
1,699 posts, read 3,536,626 times
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It may be incontinence in that when the urge to pee hits, it is urgent. He has lost some bladder control / ability to hold it. If you'd let him out at the exact moment the urge strikes, I'm sure he'd pee outside rather than in the house. He's going to designated spots to relieve himself instead of just "letting loose" and peeing all over himself, so yes that tells you he recognizes he's about to pee. But that urge may come up quite suddenly and he has no reason to believe you'll respond quickly enough letting him outside so he feels almost forced to create indoor potty zones. He's making an effort really.

I'd go back to a potty training type of schedule with him. Frequent outings, supervision, recognizing subtle signals that he might need to 'go' and getting him outside quickly, rewarding successful outdoor potties, etc. Like he is a puppy that you are training. Let him out as soon as he wakes up from a nap, and when he wanders out of the room like you described - that seems to be one of his signals that he needs to pee. If sneaking off to pee is a problem, there is really no reason he needs to have the run of the house at all times, he can be confined in whatever room you're in using a baby gate or other barrier.

Of course I'd be really patient and understanding with the old guy. He's paid his dues. I'm sure he's not trying to be naughty, it's just when he's gotta go he's gotta go!

Proin has been very helpful for many dogs with incontinence and loss of bladder control. Do your research and speak with your vet about this option.
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:18 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,126,728 times
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Well I understand your frustration but I don't understand why you put CARPET and good flooring down in the DREAM HOME then give him free run of the house.

A 15 year old dog RANDOMLY started being UNHOUSEBROKEN at age 13?

NO.

Age 13 is the CRITICAL AGE for onset of many conditions and most of them involve incontinence. Cushings can be sneaky and go undiagnosed for awhile ESPECIALLY if the OWNER declines paying for the testing which is COMMON. It usually starts at age 12-13 and be bad by age 15. Does his hair look "NORMAL"?

Does he have any weakness in his hindquarters of any kind? But was it "excused" as "old age/arthritis"?

Vet or no vet (or trainer) this isn't just being obstinate. 99% of the time it's the owner or a medical condition.

Do what K9coach says. (and get a new vet like an INTERNIST). YES I would get the vet to RX Proin regardless of a diagnosis.

Put a belly band on him and I'd rip UP the carpet and put down sheet goods (a big sheet of old school linoleum type stuff) and keep him down there.

Amazon.com: PlayaPup Dog Belly Bands, Light Blue Camo, Medium: Clothing

You could put a big "Exercise Pen" in the house on a washable surface like make a big fake floor covered in tile and he can be with family but "behind bars" if you're desperate. You can make them HUGE by adding connectors and you can make them all different shapes.

BUT YOU STILL NEED TO TAKE HIM OUT ALL THE TIME so I hesitate to even mention it but it's better than euth and some people euth when they get mad.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ercise+pen+dog

Also if you change his food from dry to canned he'll drink less water. You must switch SLOWLY or he'll get diarrhea like over 2 weeks! And get a HIGH QUALITY SENIOR food, not a cheap brand because he'll eat LESS with a high quality and also he'll absorb MORE instead of eliminating alot of crap they put in the cheap foods.


YOU ARE NOT WITHHOLDING WATER ARE YOU?

I know MANY people who do that and the dog drinks like a camel once or twice a day and get completely unbalanced in their ability to manage their urination.

For people with YOUNGER DOGS, a raw food diet of MEAT WITH BONE results in a dog who barely drinks or eliminates much (#1 and 2) but that is NOT an option in an old guy his age.

He could even have something NOT casually diagnosable like a slow growing brain tumor. Does he ever act confused? Stare at walls? HIDING is not a good thing. It means something is going on. OR he's used to getting yelled at for eliminating. So he's trying NOT to. Some dogs around age 13 start acting like they have dementia but it's usually found to be something like that upon autopsy. I'm saying that because as a health advisor on a Yahoo Megaesophagus Help Board we've heard it all and seen it all and most people join with secondary conditions that impact their elimination.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-16-2014 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Utah
5,000 posts, read 14,429,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellmark View Post
I know this is a frequent topic... but I have a different spin.

Familiar "old dog peeing inside" story.. Started 18 mos or so ago in old house. Destroyed carpet and the old hardwood underneath. Consistently the same area. We tried the floor training pads but he made no connection to them and had a 10% chance of hitting them....

The vet says no UI/Bladder problems and he and a dog training expert immediately say its incontinence.
But incontinence means it just happens.. even in his own bed. He has never peed in his bed....
Don't know what tests vet runs to say no UI/Bladder problems, but this reminds me of my dog at 10 years old starting this behavior all of a sudden. Later diagnosed with kidney disease. She lived 2 more years after diagnosis--which was rare.

Good friend just told me 2 weeks ago her 10 year old Westie started doing this at her house. She stopped eating & drinking last week and was euthanized last night because of kidney failure.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
5,357 posts, read 9,821,707 times
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My old male dog started doing this along with the onset of dementia...he forgot he was housebroken. We'd take him outside 10-12 times a day. Then he'd still let loose in the house when the urge hit him. He didn't do on purpose, it was loss of mind, not loss of baldder. Poor old fellow. His health problems piled up more and more until we had to let him go...no joy was left for him.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:13 AM
 
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Default I feel your frustration!

I have a four year old blue heeler that i adopted from a family. He never had any issues in their house. I have had him almost five months now and ever since we brought him home he's had a peeingg issue. It's not in the same spot twice and its rivers of pee so I know he's not marking. I spent about 2k on vet visits to find nothing wrong with him. Daily exercise as my trainer which cost me $3500 told me would make it go away. He went as far as lifting his leg while laying down to pee. He even peed on himself. I'm at a total loss and I'm not sure what else there is to do. Hoping to find some answers or some helpful tips.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:35 PM
 
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I've never heard of a healthy dog laying down and peeing unless it could be some sort of submissive urination. Could that be the case? What are you doing when that happens? How is he peeing on himself? Is he not lifting his leg?

If it's rivers of pee it sounds like he's holding it for some reason. Are you going with him when he goes outside? Do you actually see him pee outside?

Why did the other family give him up? I'd be surprised if he didn't have some issues with them that they're not telling you about.

Is he neutered? Is he the only dog in your house? If not, could he be too intimidated by the other dog to pee outside?

We need some additional information.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:13 PM
 
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Neither have I that is why I was so confused. I've crossed submissive peeing before. At that time, my husband was playing on his computer, wasn't yelling or talking or anything. Just sitting there, and the dog was laying on the ground next to him. The only thing my husband can think of is that he was dreaming or something. It's strange. He's never done that before. He lifted his leg and started peeing.

I have to take him outside because we live in an apartment complex. He gets run every other day and goes to the dog park every Sunday.

They were moving off Hawaii and couldn't take him with. I had kept in contact with her afterwards to find out if they had any issues with his peeing and they said they didn't. Now, that's not to say she was lying to me, but I don't know.

He is not nuetered, so I thought well maybe that was an issue, but I don't know how. I have another dog, she's one, completely potty trained by the time she was 3 months. I'm not sure about the intimidation.

When we first brought him home, he was peeing in the house daily, never in his crate, and never in the same spot. Got him on a routine to go out every two hours or so, and that seemed to help. I was also talking to the vets had him tested for everything we could think of. Finally after about a month, the peeing subsided to like once a week, and if we hadn't taken him out in a while, but we also had my very expensive trainer at this point.

Then about a month and a half ago, he started peeing when it was feeding time, on the floor or in his kennel (which he's never done before. We feed our dogs in their kennels (right next to each other) so we thought maybe he was getting excited (but not showing ANY signs of excitement) or he was territorial of his food with the other dog around. So we separated feeding time. He gets fed in the living room and she gets fed in her kennel in the back bedroom.

He peed on the floor once when my husband was yelling at our other dog. But that was the only time when we've yelled.

I hope you see how strange this is for me, I can't seem to figure out what the deal is.
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