Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've chronicled our five weeks with the rescue senior dog. Up until this point, things couldn't be better. I'm telling the truth with that. He seemed like he was getting along with the kids well enough and seemed to enjoy the six year old's presence. Then this happened. We made the mistake of leaving the children alone with him for a moment (I was in the bedroom and my husband had stepped outside). So we were not there when the incident happened. That's totally our fault. My daughter came into my room screaming and crying and she had two scrapes on her face (not deep puncture wounds though), one above her lip and the other on her chin. there was bleeding but it wasn't gushing. that's why i think it was more of a nip than an actual bite because bite would mean way more damage. she told me that he jumped up onto the couch beside her, which he does often. She was petting him on the head in "soft strokes". Then, in a sequence of I guess moments, he bared his teeth, growled and got her in the face. When she was screaming and crying she said he didn't give a warning but once she calmed down, on her own and without prompting, she says that he bared his teeth and gave a quick growl. So he did warn but then soon followed with an action.
This caught us totally by surprise as there hasn't been no real signs that I know of. He seemed to get along with the kids. Everything really seemed great and we were commenting on how he's made great strides. We are his first family, he was a vet clinic dog for years before coming to us. We are faced with a difficult decision, one that I don't want to take lightly. I love him very much and don't want to return him but at the same time I have to consider my child's well being. She's never been around dogs before and now she's terrified. She doesn't want us to give him back, but she says that she can't trust him any longer. Regardless, this incidence does change things in our household.
Can anyone please weigh in. Our previous dog never growled or bit so we have no reference. this is all new to us. We try to educate our kids on dog etiquette but obviously something irritated him. The frustrating thing is that WE JUST DON'T KNOW what could have instigated this.
Sorry if I am not coming across clearly, I'm just shocked right now.
you are taking what your daughter says as gospel ? I don't think the child has a clear definition of how to behave around a dog once the teeth were shown she should have backed up safely and left the room and yes it is your fault . Never ever leave a child alone with a dog you barely know . I think a lot of this could have been avoided by asking a few questions before the dog came to your home . Does this dog do well with children and if the rescue said we don't know then you should have moved on and told the rescue we have chosen to get another dog .But now that this has happened you want to return the dog . Things can be worked on I do think if you get a trainer for this dog . I m not trying to be mean but a lot of this incident could have been avoided . How old is this child ? if she is over 6 she should have been taught better and she should not be allowed to make household decisions on the dog . I'm sorry but this whole thing is mind boggling .
Firstly, you should never have left him alone with your daughter, especially after only 5 weeks. I know that it is tempting to rush transitions like this but, in doing so, you set the dog up for failure by simply asking too much in a very short amount of time.
Secondly, your daughter should have stopped petting him and moved away the minute he growled. This is an extremely important lesson that she should learn regarding ANY animal.
Also, did he have a toy or bone or other high-value item near him when the incident took place?
Has the dog been to the vet? Is he healthy? Your first step should be to determine if his behavior is due to physical illness or if it is behavioral.
If it is behavioral, then you need to determine how committed you are to this dog. Returning him to the shelter is definitely an option and no one would blame you if that is what you decide to do.
If you decide to keep him, then I would enlist the help of a trainer to help you with his behavioral issues.
Had a boyfriend once, we were...20? I was the first person he ever told this. He knew he wasn't supposed to take a back way through an old field home from school. He did it anyway, was playing and scratched/punctured himself, not seriously, on some wire.
There had been a rabies scare going on and his mom freaked out. Did an animal bite you did an animal bite you did an animal bite you? Uh, yes! Because he was too afraid to tell her that he'd been playing in the forbidden field and hurt himself on wire.
He was IDK 8? He went through the whole series of shots in the stomach, this was 60s, and those things hurt like hell. He said he screamed and cried every time. Never told his parents.
More recently had a dog, neighbor kids. I'm not sure about this but the dog seemed to respond to height. Big people were big threats (big barking displays at the door etc that seemed to correspond to height and gender), children were equals or less. I.e. he wasn't going to take any guff from some mere kid. I am theorizing on observations in a big way here The one boy had a thing going were he liked to press the dogs buttons in small ways Like just...put his finger on the dogs nose while he was staring the dog in the eye. I never left them unattended. One day my dog snapped at him and scared him. I was there but my head was turned the other way, it was his sister who told me it wasn't the dogs fault. Not permissible ever on the dogs part but easily dealt with. The kid could no long come over and I never ever took my eyes on him if he was around. This was a rescue dog I managed to train to live with two ferrets. I felt bad but I had to constantly reinforce (never physically) that he was the subordinate in all situations. No matter what the ferrets did. Because any retaliation would have been deadly for them even if their nippy selves totally deserved it. And no they were never left alone together except while we were all sleeping in the same room at night (Im a light sleeper).
I'm only relaying these stories for insight. Your daughter is probably not outright lying but she may have a skewed perspective of what happened. Or she may be shading the truth slightly to make herself look less culpable. Or she didn't realize she had shifted her weight onto the dogs leg....
It is possible that the dog is one of those dogs that can never be on the couch etc. without...starting to think a little more of themselves than they should. Behavioral training to reinforce their subordinate place "in the pack" (I hate all that pack stuff but you get my drift).
See a trainer. Many are crap so it will be hard. Don't be afraid to discard one and move on to the next if they seem off base.
You are in tough place now. If you return him, or for that matter let anyone know about the bite if thats what it was, for biting that is sometimes a death sentence. Unless you are working with a rescue that won't go that route. Discussions should be delicate.
But you don't want your kids at risk either. Nor do you want to return him without making sure he doesn't go to a family with kids.
Last comment. I applaud you for rescuing a senior dog. But...how senior? Even rock solid dogs can get tetchy when old. No vet is really going to be able to tell you if the dog has arthritis pain, getting a little dementia, sight problems can change behavior etc. Many dogs hide pain pretty well etc. Not sure what the age is but you maybe should have considered middle aged.
My son has a rescue dog. My grandkids are 7 and 4. The dog always appears to be a high risk of nipping them. But I've seen what goes on, as my grandchildren have provoked the dog time and time again. Problem is, kids come first. As sad as it is, the dog would go first.
My son says he's going to take the dog for training. That costs money and with no guarantees. You have no idea what the rescue dog went through before it was yours.
The dog must go if you don't have the time and money to do everything in your power to train the dog.
Look, I know that we were at fault by doing what we did leaving them alone. I knew before I posted that I would take hits for that and I accept that. There were never any signs before and we were lulled into a sense of false security. We all thought that things were coming along great.
At this point, I'm just trying to make sense of it all and I'm not sure what to do. If I wasn't committed/didn't care I wouldn't even bother posting for advice from seasoned dog people. I'd just return him without question. That's why we're so torn, because we do care. We're just in a state of shock and understandably so.
There was no food around, or toys. It's not unsusual for him to jump on the couch next to the kids and receive affection. This regularly happens. We've been good about telling her how to interact with him. She has never been around dogs, let alone large dogs, before. We had not had a dog in six years, literally the time period she's been on this earth. Our oldest daughter was born after we had our first family dog, and at that point he was older, so I think the situation is different. Our youngest hasn't been exposed to dogs much. We have taught her how to act around animals and correct her if she does something wrong, so let's not assume that we didn't do our job in that regard. Also, let's not always assume that the kid is being a terror to a dog.
I'm sorry, but I don't think she's lying. Her 11 year old sister recounted the same thing. She continued petting him because at that moment - and this is a split second mind you - she didn't know to stop petting him. Of course, I told her after the fact, that that was a warning and she needs to move away from him. we're all - the family and the dog - learning how to coexist together and up until this point everything was going ok. As far as the rescue was concerned, they said that he was exposed to kids. I don't believe he's ever lived with them, though. He was a clinic dog and was used for blood transfusions. His world was a vet clinic for five years, and before that who knows because he came from a shelter. He definitely came to us with issues, but we were prepared for that having adopted before. Our first ended up being a real gem of a dog after that initial adjustment period. He has confidence issues, and separation anxiety. but these were all things we were working through and thought to be making strides. I even commented how much progress he's made. He is still very attached to one person but we can deal with that. however, biting/nipping...well we haven't dealt with that before.
It's mind boggling to us too. Sometimes things have a clear answer - the worst is when you don't have an answer or a why. Or how to proceed next. We have NEVER returned a dog. That is never our first option but right now my daughter is terrified and won't be anywhere near him. I just don't know what to do at this point.
The truth is we don't know about him and neither did the rescue. They haven't been around him much. We adopted him because quite frankly at his age he wasn't going anywhere and we really wanted to give him the love of being a family pet instead of his previous life. I know, I know, people have such noble intentions when they adopt. Maybe he doesn't really do well with children under 10. Now we know. Unfortunately we are in a delicate situation - because our daughter is also distraught because she thinks we're going to give up the dog.
You don't know what happened or what might have triggered this nip.
As you know, children and dogs should never be left alone together. People in general have very little idea how to read a dog or gauge their discomfort with a particular situation. Thus all the "cute" pictures of children on the internet doing truly stupid things to their dogs (clearly under their parents' guidance), e.g. lying on them, trying to ride them, restraining them while they try to get away, getting in the dog's face, staring at dog, well, you get the idea.
I would not return the dog based on this one incident when you simply don't know what happened. Clearly something triggered the dog's behavior- he warned with a growl; normally an adult would (hopefully) back off, but your daughter didn't know to do that.
Teach your children how to behave respectfully around a dog (any dog, not just your dog), and never ever leave them alone again together without supervision. Oh, and educate yourself about canine body language and stress signals. Turiid Rugaas' Calming Signals is a pretty good fast read, but get the video. You do need to interpret stress signals in context, e.g. a lip lick in one situation may indicate stress but not in another situation.
You can do a search for a CPDT-KA certified trainer in your area using this search tool; there are a lot of crappy downright awful dog trainers out there, but having a CPDT-KA certification is a benchmark showing the trainer has either apprenticed or worked with a mentor who vouched for them, so you know they have a certain level of hands-on experience:
I will 2nd twelvepaw's mention of "On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals" by Rugaas. It is a small book with plenty of gold. Also "Canine Body Language" by Brenda Aloff.
You will want to work with your daughter - she may well feel a bit guilty about the incident. I think you could find a way to keep both, but also keep your daughter away from the dog - until she learns better how to handle the dog.
I will try and write some more later - I have to run some errands ATM.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The one boy had a thing going were he liked to press the dogs buttons in small ways Like just...put his finger on the dogs nose while he was staring the dog in the eye. I never left them unattended. One day my dog snapped at him and scared him. I was there but my head was turned the other way, it was his sister who told me it wasn't the dogs fault. Not permissible ever on the dogs part but easily dealt with. The kid could no long come over and I never ever took my eyes on him if he was around. This was a rescue dog I managed to train to live with two ferrets. I felt bad but I had to constantly reinforce (never physically) that he was the subordinate in all situations. No matter what the ferrets did. Because any retaliation would have been deadly for them even if their nippy selves totally deserved it. And no they were never left alone together except while we were all sleeping in the same room at night (Im a light sleeper). 