Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Tody's person even at lower levels with all the governamnt support and private that is not include in poverty level has much more disposible income than ever before. That is witinessed by the IPOd and even the number of restaurants like never seen in the 50 or even early 60's.I can rememeber neioghbprs that never had a telephone in their house in the 50's ;comng to use our phone or us getting messages for them on ours.My father was upper middle income but he still carpooled with other that worked with him that lived neaby. Its was just a different way of thinki gon spending really.I would suggest that we want to return to the pre-world warII days of teh robber barons and mopst people in poverty or lower middle class either. That is what skill eliminated. Of course it has to be skills need i the 21st century and not in the early 20th century has we see so much now.
So what were Stalin, Castro, Mao, and Kim Jong Il missing that would have otherwise made communism a utopia?
Well, the fact that Stalin, Castro, Mao and Kim Jong Ill made themselves rulers and forced something top down on the people, in some cases, most of which didnt support it or had no choice either way, would be the first violation of "communism" they all made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity
because they can just get caught on camera holding up a liquor store, and get hauled off to jail where they can get free food and shelter, that's why they're not afraid of being arrested.
No, its because starvation is one of the most painful and agonizing ways to die. A person will do almost anything to obtain food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity
do you really want to speculate how many of the 31.5 million people would actually turn into violent criminals if they don't get any more handouts?
Some of them would probably get jobs, or live at a lower standard of living on their current jobs, however, at the point in which they cannot afford food conventionally, they will turn to begging or criminal activity. Most probably wont be of the violent sort, just walk in to a store, life something and run, but there certainly is the potential for violence. There is armed robbery every day in this country, and many of them arent stealing simply because they cant eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity
surrendering our economic freedom to become a welfare state out of fear that the bad man is going to rob us is no way to live. It just sends the message to all the would-be criminals out there that they can just bully their way through life, because people are too afraid to stand up for themselves. Giving them harsh consequences to face if they rob an innocent person sends out a message that that type of behavior isn't tolerated.
Who would pay for the additional prisons? You going to raise the taxes on everyone else? Or are you just going to shift the food stamp spending over to the prison industrial complex? You know it takes like 20-40k a year to house a prisoner.....thats several familes worth of food stamps a year.
Tody's person even at lower levels with all the governamnt support and private that is not include in poverty level has much more disposible income than ever before. That is witinessed by the IPOd and even the number of restaurants like never seen in the 50 or even early 60's.I can rememeber neioghbprs that never had a telephone in their house in the 50's ;comng to use our phone or us getting messages for them on ours.My father was upper middle income but he still carpooled with other that worked with him that lived neaby. Its was just a different way of thinki gon spending really.I would suggest that we want to return to the pre-world warII days of teh robber barons and mopst people in poverty or lower middle class either. That is what skill eliminated. Of course it has to be skills need i the 21st century and not in the early 20th century has we see so much now.
Actually debt is fueling consumer spending more so than any increase in discretionary income.
As I look at things from a broad historical perspective it seems to me that for the vast majority of history (since the birth of civilization, anyway), human social dynamics have almost always given us dramatic disparity of wealth between the few super-rich and the vast unwashed masses barely scraping by beneath them.
Looking from this perspective, the past 50 years or so in America have really been a historical anomaly this is now "correcting" itself, much to the chagrin of those who stand to loose out on what has become a expected but not necessarily historically congruent or sustainable way of life.
Perhaps is it inevitable that our middle-class is going to disappear. Maybe it is impossible to maintain a high standard of living for the majority over the long haul. Perhaps we need to accept the party is indeed over and lower our expectations? What do you think?
I think the following link is an intelligent discourse on the subject of how societies become dominated by small elites. Fundamentally, I think it's a spiritual problem at its root. I particularly like this quote:
So what can be done to change the equation in a nation? It can be helpful to be aware of the spiritual poisons..... The basic poison is ignorance, and although this poison affects all people, it has the greatest effect on the general population. Many people are simply so overwhelmed by the poison of ignorance that they cannot lift their awareness to find out what is really going on behind the scenes. Many of them don’t want to know because they don’t want the responsibility that comes with knowledge. Yet the extreme effect of the poison of ignorance is an unwillingness to know the truth.
Well, the fact that Stalin, Castro, Mao and Kim Jong Ill made themselves rulers and forced something top down on the people, in some cases, most of which didnt support it or had no choice either way, would be the first violation of "communism" they all made.
So how would a communist system be enforced if not from the top down?
Word is, the pilgrims also tried a non-dictatorship communist system, and that failed spectacularly as well (also killing many of the settlers, incidentally...enforcing the notion that communism does kill)
Quote:
Some of them would probably get jobs, or live at a lower standard of living on their current jobs, however, at the point in which they cannot afford food conventionally, they will turn to begging or criminal activity. Most probably wont be of the violent sort, just walk in to a store, life something and run, but there certainly is the potential for violence. There is armed robbery every day in this country, and many of them arent stealing simply because they cant eat.
Who would pay for the additional prisons? You going to raise the taxes on everyone else? Or are you just going to shift the food stamp spending over to the prison industrial complex? You know it takes like 20-40k a year to house a prisoner.....thats several familes worth of food stamps a year.
well, apparently, we should have a balance of both. a temporary safety net would be in order so that people don't have to steal to survive, but at the same time, we can't let people become completely dependent on it. and enacting the safety net out of fear of criminals is the wrong way of thinking, because most theives will always steal from others, regardless if they are actually starving, or if they are working out of an office embezzling millions of dollars. which is why we need an effective justice system as well.
First thing, communism cannot be forced top down, second thing, "communism" is not what was historically forced.
But it almost always is.
There are only a few countries in the world that do socialism well--generally in Scandinavia. It works there because the countries are small, and have a reputation for low corruption. Until recently, the mindset of the people was different from your typical dweller on planet earth. Now that those countries have more immigration from other parts of the world, their socialist systems have come under strain, as the rest of the world just doesn't think like Scandinavians do.
I think the following link is an intelligent discourse on the subject of how societies become dominated by small elites. Fundamentally, I think it's a spiritual problem at its root. I particularly like this quote:
So what can be done to change the equation in a nation? It can be helpful to be aware of the spiritual poisons..... The basic poison is ignorance, and although this poison affects all people, it has the greatest effect on the general population. Many people are simply so overwhelmed by the poison of ignorance that they cannot lift their awareness to find out what is really going on behind the scenes. Many of them don’t want to know because they don’t want the responsibility that comes with knowledge. Yet the extreme effect of the poison of ignorance is an unwillingness to know the truth.
Saint Germain, (http://www.askrealjesus.com/worldchange/centraldynamic/changeanynation.html - broken link)
There is truth to that, and it shows in this contry as voter apathy and a general unwillingness of the populace to do anything more than simply gripe about how things are.
There is truth to that, and it shows in this contry as voter apathy and a general unwillingness of the populace to do anything more than simply gripe about how things are.
Agreed on both counts.
FYI, that web site I linked to has lots of content and is worthwhile reading if you're into that sort of stuff. Like anything, some of it I find off base, but overall the site has some really good and well thought out insights that you don't normally encounter in the cyberworld at large.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
