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Your own knowledge of "the comprehensive tax structure" could use a tune-up.
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Originally Posted by Escort Rider
1. You state that "No one in America is under taxed". How about the people who have large amounts of certain types of investment income on which they pay federal income tax at the rate of 15%? You don't think those fat cats are being under-taxed? I think income is income and we all ought to pay federal income taxes on our income at the rate determined by the amount, not the type, of income. .
The basic question is how much of your money is the government entitled to? Personally I see government as being out of control and believe its size and scope could be reduced by 2/3rds to everyone’s benefit.
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Originally Posted by Escort Rider
2. You state that "every worker and every employer pay without exception" payroll taxes and sales taxes. Not so. Many public employees with their own separate pension systems are not part of Social Security and therefore pay only the Medicare tax, not the entire FICA package of payroll taxes. Also, some states do not have a sales tax; do you still maintain there are no exceptions to people paying these? .
My statement was a generalization. Perhaps a more fitting statement would have been the "vast majority" Government as a rule does not follow the same rules it sets for the peasants.
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Originally Posted by Escort Rider
3. How is a discussion of the fairness and appropriateness of the federal income tax "dividing the masses"? Each tax can be analysed and discussed separately as to its effect and its degree of progressivity or regressivity. Case in point: Even in the states which do have a sales tax (the majority of states) there is no uniformity about what is excluded from that. In California food bought in stores is exempt but restaurant meals are taxed. In some other states food is subject to sales tax but at a lower rate than other goods. Also, in some states clothing and prescription medicines get a sales tax break. .
Simply reading this thread will demonstrate to you how it divides the masses. Taxes are not fair for a reason. That reason is to keep the people fighting among themselves. Kind of a expansion on sibling rivalry.
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Originally Posted by Escort Rider
4. I would like to see data to support your assertion that payroll taxes and sales taxes constitute "the far bigger piece of the tax pie" (as opposed to income taxes). I don't know which kind of tax brings in the most revenue to all levels of government in the aggregate, but I do know that I pay a whole lot more in federal income taxes alone (not even including the state income taxes) than I do in sales taxes and payroll taxes combined.
You are free to ck it for yourself, but the basic premise is that the base SS tax rate is 6.2% the employer matches that for another 6.2% then there is Medicare for another 2.9% matched again by the employer. On top of that you add the 6.2% for FUTA (paid only by the employer) and you have a fairly substantial number. Of course all the taxes paid by the employer are figured into your overall compensation which is lowered in order to pay those taxes, so in fact they are all paid by the workers.
Income tax was started as just a tax on HIGH Incomes.
So set the numbers so that only maybe only the top 10% pay any income tax. Big Deal. What do we care if poor folks do not pay a tax on a low income?
Poor folks still pay sales tax, state and local taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes, alcohol and cigarette taxes, excise taxes, and another 100 taxes that they may not even know about.
Meanwhile -- make up any shortfall via Corporate and Import Taxes. That is where the money is being bled off to.
Like already observed -- this sort of garbage is paid and generated by Corporate and Top End interests. Those that spread it are pretty much clueless tools.
Your own knowledge of "the comprehensive tax structure" could use a tune-up.
The basic question is how much of your money is the government entitled to? Personally I see government as being out of control and believe its size and scope could be reduced by 2/3rds to everyone’s benefit.
My statement was a generalization. Perhaps a more fitting statement would have been the "vast majority" Government as a rule does not follow the same rules it sets for the peasants.
Simply reading this thread will demonstrate to you how it divides the masses. Taxes are not fair for a reason. That reason is to keep the people fighting among themselves. Kind of a expansion on sibling rivalry.
You are free to ck it for yourself, but the basic premise is that the base SS tax rate is 6.2% the employer matches that for another 6.2% then there is Medicare for another 2.9% matched again by the employer. On top of that you add the 6.2% for FUTA (paid only by the employer) and you have a fairly substantial number. Of course all the taxes paid by the employer are figured into your overall compensation which is lowered in order to pay those taxes, so in fact they are all paid by the workers.
escort rider got to agree with jimcom on this one, you need a little tune up on the tax code.
your missing a big point about our tax system when you talk about the 15% capital gains rate not being enough .
while capital gains may be taxed at 15 % if they are that large with few exceptions they trip the amt tax system and you are no longer on the same tax rate system your thinking in terms of.
once the phase out points are hit on the amt system you basically are on a flat rate tax system from dollar one on every other bit of income and salary you get.
the resulting tax on the amt system is a far cry from the regular system . its giving you the the 15% rate you got on the capital gains and increasing your taxes so drastically on all your other income that the effect of the 15% is really gone.
when all is said and done the tax you pay on everything else besides the capital gain can be a flat 26% from dollar one and go up to a flat 28% after passing certain income levels, with only contributions and mortgage interest left as a deduction. you even loose the exemptions on your dependants.
its a huge difference in comparison to 26% on the conventional tax system with a 15% tax rate on capital gains..
Last edited by mathjak107; 03-11-2012 at 09:31 AM..
What I wonder is, do these people actually PAY the taxes on their income but then get it all back at tax time? Or are there that many people not working and paying taxes? And why do so many people get back so much more than what they pay into it?
We file taxes every year, and we get all of it back, minus self employment taxes (automatically deducted from our refund), and we get credits and usually end up with a nice chunk of money back.
escort rider got to agree with jimcom on this one, you need a little tune up on the tax code.
your missing a big point about our tax system when you talk about the 15% capital gains rate not being enough .
while capital gains may be taxed at 15 % if they are that large with few exceptions they trip the amt tax system and you are no longer on the same tax rate system your thinking in terms of.
once the phase out points are hit on the amt system you basically are on a flat rate tax system from dollar one on every other bit of income and salary you get.
the resulting tax on the amt system is a far cry from the regular system . its giving you the the 15% rate you got on the capital gains and increasing your taxes so drastically on all your other income that the effect of the 15% is really gone.
when all is said and done the tax you pay on everything else besides the capital gain can be a flat 26% from dollar one and go up to a flat 28% after passing certain income levels, with only contributions and mortgage interest left as a deduction. you even loose the exemptions on your dependants.
its a huge difference in comparison to 26% on the conventional tax system with a 15% tax rate on capital gains..
I am not sure what you are smoking, but I never said anything about the capital gains rate.
We file taxes every year, and we get all of it back, minus self employment taxes (automatically deducted from our refund), and we get credits and usually end up with a nice chunk of money back.
Finally got my taxes done the other day. Had to file both 2010 and 2011 because I 'goofed' last year. Between the two I'm getting back a little over $1,500 but I didn't pay in that much. Part of it was a big credit for 'making work pay' in 2010 and I only worked six months that year. In a way, I wouldn't care if I got nothing back but it's nice to have it. I also got to do a deduction on the sales tax I paid when I bought my car last June. Wasn't expecting that one!
I usually do my own taxes, and remembered why this year. I had to pay $175 and that was with an associate discount where I work. Next year I go back to doing my own!
You are free to ck it for yourself, but the basic premise is that the base SS tax rate is 6.2% the employer matches that for another 6.2% then there is Medicare for another 2.9% matched again by the employer. On top of that you add the 6.2% for FUTA (paid only by the employer) and you have a fairly substantial number. Of course all the taxes paid by the employer are figured into your overall compensation which is lowered in order to pay those taxes, so in fact they are all paid by the workers.
They all are paid by SOME workers. I maintain that generally, they are not paid by burger flippers and other minimum wage workers.
If the payroll taxes and FUTA paid by employers disappeared, how much of it would minimum wage workers see in the form of higher wages.
Like already observed -- this sort of garbage is paid and generated by Corporate and Top End interests. Those that spread it are pretty much clueless tools.
Agreed with these two points in particular.
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