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Actually, both Germany and Sweden did exactly what the austerity advocates advised and they haven't felt nearly the effects of the PIIGS. I wish you guys would learn economics.
While you're telling people to "learn economics", you didn't even bother to fact check your politically motivated commentary. The United States has reduced total government spending (federal, state and local) during the recession more than both Sweden and Germany. In the US, the increases in federal spending have been offset by cuts in state and local spending. Both Germany and Sweden have a lot of automatic stabilizers that kick in when a recession hits, so there is less of a need to pursue additional stimulus spending.
Its funny that conservative pundits are trying to use two countries with strong social models and high taxes to push for cutting government spending. These countries haven't cut taxes, they haven't cut government services. What do they do that the US doesn't? They have high enough taxes to cover their government spending....
Have you ever been to Germany? germany has public health care which conservatives hate. Germany has public transportation and high speed trains which conservatives hate. German universities have very little tuition/fees which conservatives hate. Germany have VAT which conservatives hate.Now you are giving example of Germany as "ideal" system.It is very SOCIALIST as compared to USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Actually, both Germany and Sweden did exactly what the austerity advocates advised and they haven't felt nearly the effects of the PIIGS. I wish you guys would learn economics. What's more, Milton Friedman consulted heavily with countries such as Sweden and eastern Europe, all of which are thriving. While the countries that continue to pursue the tired Keynesian theories you like are floundering in a rather spectacular manner.
They have high enough taxes to cover their government spending....
But the problem with that is...some countries (Greece, Italy) would NEVER have high enough taxes to cover their spending. The problem is corruption and culture at its core. Sweden has low corruption. Most countries don't. Therefore, taxing more and more in a corrupt country is not going to lead to good results. It is also much easier to achieve consensus on different issues in smaller, culturally homogenous countries than in large ones like the US. Now that Europe is allowing more immigration, they are finding out the policies that worked well with ethnic Swedes, don't work so well with people who immigrate from Turkey or North Africa.
But the problem with that is...some countries (Greece, Italy) would NEVER have high enough taxes to cover their spending.
Greece has a primary deficit and its a special case, the others (Italy, Spain, etc) have a German and Euro problem. Namely, that Germany insist on maintaining a surplus and the surplus has to be largely absorbed within the Euro-zone. How do you improve your economy when you're forced to absorb German production at the expense of local production?
Austerity in Europe is all about saving the German economy and European banks at the expense of a handful of member states. With the exception of Greece, the problems in Italy, Spain etc can be solved by ditching the Euro...at which point Germany will be forced to adjust.
This is just like China getting mad at the US for inflation, etc, they refuse to do anything about their large surplus with the US and want to keep destroying US industry in-order to grow theirs.
Have you ever been to Germany? germany has public health care which conservatives hate. Germany has public transportation and high speed trains which conservatives hate. German universities have very little tuition/fees which conservatives hate. Germany have VAT which conservatives hate.Now you are giving example of Germany as "ideal" system.It is very SOCIALIST as compared to USA.
germany is about half the size of texas, so obviously they can do some things different than we do here.
as far as education, the responsibility for the German education system lies primarily with the states (Länder) while the federal government plays only a minor role. (so i think most conservatives would be on board with that).
what germany has been, though, is an economic powerhouse through manufacturing-which is something the US lost a long time ago, when we sold out to china for the promise of "cheaper goods".
i always wondered who would be able to work cheaper than US prisoners?
why weren't prisoners making american goods here-it would have been good for them and good for us, and reduced the cost of housing and maintaining prisoners. (especially in light of statistics when you realize that california spends more on its prisoners than on its education-what's that say?)
we could have made it here and kept it here, 100%.
as far as germany goes, they are (at least for now) standing against the eurobond, because they don't believe that it is a good thing to encourage and reward fiscally irresponsible behavior.
that seems like a fiscal conservative position to me, rather than a socialist position.
As far as germany goes, they are (at least for now) standing against the eurobond, because they don't believe that it is a good thing to encourage and reward fiscally irresponsible behavior.
That seems like a fiscal conservative position to me, rather than a socialist position.
Agreed. It seems to me that some socialist countries still have a clue that restraint is needed. Germany, Switzerland, & the Scandinavian countries seem to understand you can't just spend willy nilly and expect everything is going to magically work out. They expect (and generally get) high quality services for all the taxes they pay and they don't seem to put up with as much BS in the form of corruption or incompetence (at least that's my general impression from visiting Germany and talking to friends who are from there or who have relatives there.)
But American socialists seem to think simply spending more money will fix all of our problems and even when there are blatant examples of government incompetence or corruption, they turn a blind eye to it (or blame it all on Republicans) because it doesn't support their cherished beliefs about how things are supposed to be.
comparing Texas to Germany. well Germany population is three times that of Texas. most of texas is barren waste. Look at the cost of university education in germany and then compare it to US???
and you want prisoners in US jails to make computers, TVs, electronics as well as do call center jobs, accounting, computer programming???? these are the jobs we have outsourced to countries like china, india?? and what will americans do? wait tables in restaurants and hope for tip???
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy
germany is about half the size of texas, so obviously they can do some things different than we do here.
as far as education, the responsibility for the German education system lies primarily with the states (Länder) while the federal government plays only a minor role. (so i think most conservatives would be on board with that).
what germany has been, though, is an economic powerhouse through manufacturing-which is something the US lost a long time ago, when we sold out to china for the promise of "cheaper goods".
i always wondered who would be able to work cheaper than US prisoners?
why weren't prisoners making american goods here-it would have been good for them and good for us, and reduced the cost of housing and maintaining prisoners. (especially in light of statistics when you realize that california spends more on its prisoners than on its education-what's that say?)
we could have made it here and kept it here, 100%.
as far as germany goes, they are (at least for now) standing against the eurobond, because they don't believe that it is a good thing to encourage and reward fiscally irresponsible behavior.
that seems like a fiscal conservative position to me, rather than a socialist position.
comparing Texas to Germany. well Germany population is three times that of Texas. most of texas is barren waste. Look at the cost of university education in germany and then compare it to US???
and you want prisoners in US jails to make computers, TVs, electronics as well as do call center jobs, accounting, computer programming???? these are the jobs we have outsourced to countries like china, india?? and what will americans do? wait tables in restaurants and hope for tip???
the point was just to comment on the "globalist" fallacy that our work HAS to be outsourced.
there would be plenty of jobs for prisoners to do-the same menial jobs that are being outsourced to foreign countries now so that they can raise their standard of living-the actual labor in manual production.
i certainly hope that you don't think i was saying that prisoners would take over ALL the jobs in america.
there is nothing wrong with waiting tables, and a lot of americans can earn decent money doing so. i don't know where this mindset began to look down on certain jobs.
i respect ANY working american, going out there every day and trying to provide for their families. as far as texas, i have been there and i sure don't see it as a "barren wasteland", although i think you have answered your own point about rail travel. the bottom line for germany is, as merkel said :
Chancellor Angela Merkel once was asked by then-British prime minister Tony Blair what the secret was of her country’s economic success. She famously replied, “Mr. Blair, we still make things.
.
the key is to get as many people working as possible and that raises the standard of living for everyone-as they become less reliant on the government and more self-sufficient, and then we aren't stuck paying such high interest payments to foreign countries.
i don't know who really thinks that we can have a rising unemployment level and somehow get an improved standard of living in this country.
Last edited by floridasandy; 05-27-2012 at 04:05 PM..
Germany, Switzerland, & the Scandinavian countries seem to understand you can't just spend willy nilly and expect everything is going to magically work out. They expect (and generally get) high quality services for all the taxes they pay and they don't seem to put up with as much BS in the form of corruption or incompetence...
This is so true IMO. When the citizenry actually pays for something they expect/demand their money’s worth.
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