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Can you say that the next kid has the same room to negotiate, and so forth? As I posted earlier, a colleague got a 50% discount to study business in Notre Dame and that's one of the best packages outside of a full academic scholarship anyone from his HS recieved, and he's from Chaminade meaning he had the full college counseling resources behind him. Despite that he was still on the hook for around $100K in loans. Going back to something I said before. If you choose to go to Rutgers over Tufts for engineering, what do you lose academically? Or studying CPA accounting in CUNY versus studying busines in Boston College? Basically nothing. Yet lots of middle class parents will force the issue to send kids to Tufts or BC despite insufficient discounts and that is how they get deep into debt. It's not typically the case of a kid who has to choose between 100% scholarship in state U vs. 100% discount in private.
Every top flight candidate based on school enrollment profile can have the opportunity if they know what they are doing. You need to know what schools do and don't negotiate. They need to be comparable schools by their definition and they need to be private schools. Once you get money from one you can leverage that at their competing schools. Schools like Hopkins, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, U of Chicago etc are comparable. Ivy League schools are comparable with each other etc. It takes time and communication with their financial aid/admissions office etc etc etc. For kids eligible for need based aid they have even more flexibility but often not the parents able to do it. It also helps to suck up to someone in a special program like band etc etc. Hey even Division 3 schools give athletic scholarships even if they say they don't, they just call them academic.
I wonder how many people actually know folks who have gotten tech degrees from MIT. It is a different world with very significant benefits for being suceessful.
Every top flight candidate based on school enrollment profile can have the opportunity if they know what they are doing. You need to know what schools do and don't negotiate. They need to be comparable schools by their definition and they need to be private schools. Once you get money from one you can leverage that at their competing schools. Schools like Hopkins, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, U of Chicago etc are comparable. Ivy League schools are comparable with each other etc. It takes time and communication with their financial aid/admissions office etc etc etc. For kids eligible for need based aid they have even more flexibility but often not the parents able to do it. It also helps to suck up to someone in a special program like band etc etc. Hey even Division 3 schools give athletic scholarships even if they say they don't, they just call them academic.
The first sentence sums it up though. It's basically narrowed down to a limited population that has some room/advantage to negotiate. And usually schools won't negotiate unless they have their own need to fill up a certain program with good students. Not too different from a friend of mine who got a 70% MBA scholarship in Hult when it was just a new school trying to build a reputation and initial enrollment. Needless to say those typically aren't the people who drive the debt numbers. Still, you don't have to load up on debt if you can't get a generous package.
That comment about schools being comparable - I'd take that with a bucket of salt. The company I work for has a wide representation of alma maters. Some, like myself, attended the Ivy League. But among the best work I've seen are from graduates of St. John's and Rutgers. And many people who take their engineering masters in Stanford and CMU came from India, China and the Philippines.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 08-16-2012 at 03:41 PM..
Anyway, debtors don't seem to be asking for a "bailout" - just access to the regular bankruptcy courts. Chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy is not a "bailout" by any means. It's more like a contraction of the debt to what can realistically be recovered.
As for the statistic that 91% of federally-backed student loans are "current," unfortunately, that is a heavily-massaged and somewhat outdated figure. It counts loans deferred (but still accruing interest) through the IBR program to be "current," which is not the same as saying that a loan is "performing."
Anyway, debtors don't seem to be asking for a "bailout" - just access to the regular bankruptcy courts. Chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy is not a "bailout" by any means. It's more like a contraction of the debt to what can realistically be recovered.
As for the statistic that 91% of federally-backed student loans are "current," unfortunately, that is a heavily-massaged and somewhat outdated figure. It counts loans deferred (but still accruing interest) through the IBR program to be "current," which is not the same as saying that a loan is "performing."
Student loans are allowed in Chp 13 but not Chp 7, so basically you can set up payments but can't get rid of them no matter how hard you try.
The first sentence sums it up though. It's basically narrowed down to a limited population that has some room/advantage to negotiate. And usually schools won't negotiate unless they have their own need to fill up a certain program with good students. Not too different from a friend of mine who got a 70% MBA scholarship in Hult when it was just a new school trying to build a reputation and initial enrollment. Needless to say those typically aren't the people who drive the debt numbers. Still, you don't have to load up on debt if you can't get a generous package.
That comment about schools being comparable - I'd take that with a bucket of salt. The company I work for has a wide representation of alma maters. Some, like myself, attended the Ivy League. But among the best work I've seen are from graduates of St. John's and Rutgers. And many people who take their engineering masters in Stanford and CMU came from India, China and the Philippines.
You are missing my point. I should have said comparable and their competition as defined by THEM. I know schools and people who have done it and spoken with admiisions officers and negotiated . You do need the award letter from the school to give to them. Yes it is and could be a limited number of schools but even at lower tiers there is still competition. Student can drop a notch in the competitiveness of a colleges admission and become a top candidate there when they were average elsewhere. A rule of thumb is to look at the SAT scores of the school admissions by tier. What is 50th percentile as one can be top 10 at another. The money opportunity where you are in the top decile is where you have the best chance. Also regional proximity. It is easier to get accepted and money away from home than it is close to home. Close to home their cup runneth over with applicants. Far away you become more unique and it is uniqueness that can bring the bacon home. As f
Kids turn down a lot of scholarship money to go where they want to go. When your kid takes the SAT's and does fairly well the will start to hear from colleges with glossy brochure mailings. Those are the schools that have initial interest in you. Yet many will ignore those and start their own list etc etc etc. Colleges give scholarships even before kids apply based on their SAT scores.
Kids turn down a lot of scholarship money to go where they want to go. When your kid takes the SAT's and does fairly well the will start to hear from colleges with glossy brochure mailings. Those are the schools that have initial interest in you. Yet many will ignore those and start their own list etc etc etc.
And that is fundamentally the problem. If someone wants to go to a college its often because of reputation, friends going etc. These schools have brand and pricing power. That has a lot more momentum. New supply cannot compensate for a flood of credit. It becomes another asset bubble. This time on your own skin. Its not what students should do. Its what they do, and its all the credit industry cares about.
You are missing my point. I should have said comparable and their competition as defined by THEM. I know schools and people who have done it and spoken with admiisions officers and negotiated . You do need the award letter from the school to give to them. Yes it is and could be a limited number of schools but even at lower tiers there is still competition. Student can drop a notch in the competitiveness of a colleges admission and become a top candidate there when they were average elsewhere. A rule of thumb is to look at the SAT scores of the school admissions by tier. What is 50th percentile as one can be top 10 at another. The money opportunity where you are in the top decile is where you have the best chance. Also regional proximity. It is easier to get accepted and money away from home than it is close to home. Close to home their cup runneth over with applicants. Far away you become more unique and it is uniqueness that can bring the bacon home. As f
I see. I still think the market for financial aid is much more efficient than that and both admissions officers and students are finding ways to better connect to meet their mutual needs. Even the admissions officer in my kid's private school told us that he's having a tough time helping his college bound child get a generous aid package and he already has a network of contacts among the colleges and universities nationwide to work with. As endowments shrink, opportunities will get slimmer. Then you're left again with comparing prices.
BTW, I'm not against cobbling together a portfolio of scholarships and trudging through 4 years (+2 masters) to keep your funding. I have some friends who did just that (including sucking up) but it reaches a point where it gets ridiculous. One friend who went to Wharton-UPenn from MBA to PhD was working 3 jobs tied to his scholarships just to keep it, including sucking up many times to professors just to get research assistanships. Though he had to do it since he wasn't a US resident so moot and academic. But for many Americans, just do state or whoever gives you a good package without too much discomfort. Schools are businesses at the end of it.
And that is fundamentally the problem. If someone wants to go to a college its often because of reputation, friends going etc. These schools have brand and pricing power. That has a lot more momentum. New supply cannot compensate for a flood of credit. It becomes another asset bubble. This time on your own skin. Its not what students should do. Its what they do, and its all the credit industry cares about.
Yes and one of the best ways to get pricing power are climbing walls and a top flight as in quality student population.
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