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Old 01-13-2015, 09:56 AM
 
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The OP is fallacious.

Not everyone can be rich. If everyone is rich, no one is rich. In order to be rich, someone else has to be poor. It is not the $$$ value that makes one rich; it is the gap.
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:40 PM
 
Location: North East
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No and no.

But the wealthy, with their huge impact on productivity, contribute wayy6yyyyyyy more than the poor.

The poor would be poorer without the rich...
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:44 PM
 
Location: North East
657 posts, read 695,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
The OP is fallacious.

Not everyone can be rich. If everyone is rich, no one is rich. In order to be rich, someone else has to be poor. It is not the $$$ value that makes one rich; it is the gap.
Not correct. Define rich?

Compare yourself with someone in China working a week to earn a pound of rice. Go ask him if you are poor.

Instead of focusing on money, focus on the things we consume. The more we can produce of those goods and services, the better quality of living for all. Who needs million if you live a comfortable life, provide for your family, and save for their future. Money is the biggest illusion, it means nothing...
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:27 AM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,602,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarasotaBound1 View Post
No and no.

But the wealthy, with their huge impact on productivity, contribute wayy6yyyyyyy more than the poor.

The poor would be poorer without the rich...
Well, the wealthy contribute a piece of paper allowing the poor to use the capital a piece of paper says belongs to the wealthy, thus enriching the poor. But if you kick out all the rich and make a different piece of paper that says the capital belongs to the public trust, the poor would be richer than ever. The "value" provided by the wealthy is giving the poor permission to use the capital that was usually itself built by the poor in the first place.
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,537,436 times
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Communism on paper is a great theory. It should work. But it doesn't. Because it doesn't take in account the human factor of greed, desire for power and control and putting ones self before others. In order for communism to work it would require a selfless society working towards one goal.
About the only communist society is a ant or bee colony. They all work together towards a common goal. And they are all taken care of through the whole colony's labors.


As far as the rich vs poor argument it's a symbiotic relationship. There are many things I CAN do. If I sit down and teach myself I can probably do and learn a lot more. But there are some things I can't do simply because I don't have the knowledge/smarts/experience or the time it takes to gain those qualities.
No person can do everything that needs to be done to support a society.
As for money. Is simply a medium to exchange goods and services. The barter system worked for a while but eventually there was a discrepancy in trade of goods/services. Someone was getting the short end of the stick, because the exchange became unfair to one party. Even when something is traded today there usualky is some discrepancy in value

What is rich? It's all relative. What may be considered rich by some is dirt poor by others. to some guy living in a mud hut who has never seen a flushing toilet 100% of Americans are rich.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 01-14-2015 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Communism on paper is a great theory. It should work. But it doesn't. Because it doesn't take in account the human factor of greed, desire for power and control and putting ones self before others.
Couldn't you say the same thing about unfettered Capitalism, a la the Gilded Age? I don't think just letting people destroy each other however they like counts as a solution. At least communist countries have health care. To the extent that our modern society is superior to the beginning of the 20th century, it's due to the incorporation of progressive social safety net programs.
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:08 PM
 
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The poor are a scourge on society

We spend all our tax dollars on the poor in the form of welfare, foodstamps, medicaid, social security and medicare.

The poor commit crimes at disproportionately high rates

The rich owe nothing to the poor. If there were no rich people every country would be liberia
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:04 PM
 
Location: North East
657 posts, read 695,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Well, the wealthy contribute a piece of paper allowing the poor to use the capital a piece of paper says belongs to the wealthy, thus enriching the poor. But if you kick out all the rich and make a different piece of paper that says the capital belongs to the public trust, the poor would be richer than ever. The "value" provided by the wealthy is giving the poor permission to use the capital that was usually itself built by the poor in the first place.
Communism is like Lucifer. It looks beautiful from the outside, but it's rotten inside.

But the issue you bring up is important nonetheless. What makes the US strong are it's human rights and property laws. You get to keep what you earn. If you invest your hard earned capital, you have the right to the profits. But it ain't all rosy right? I know many that have lost their shirts as well. Should the poor also bear these losses? I bet you would say no. So the reason the wealth created belongs to the rich is because they are taking the risk.

But let's say that the government decided to take all from the rich and give it to the poor. The first thing is, the people receiving it wouldn't know how to deploy it. The second thing is that there would be no incentive to produce if the government will end up taking it from you.

Communism is what is currently destroying the US economy.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:05 PM
 
Location: southern california
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there is enormous money in poverty.
the 417 million sent to detroit by the feds did not go into the poor man's pocket and that is a fact.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: North East
657 posts, read 695,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Couldn't you say the same thing about unfettered Capitalism, a la the Gilded Age? I don't think just letting people destroy each other however they like counts as a solution. At least communist countries have health care. To the extent that our modern society is superior to the beginning of the 20th century, it's due to the incorporation of progressive social safety net programs.
The problem is not capitalism. No 2 humans are alike, yet we think that somehow we need to be equal. If you take people's ability to succeed, than you will only be left with losers.

What we have today is a society that doesn't care. Politician have their own set of lawan. The government scholes who the law applaus to. And we have been implementing a lunch of socialist ideas like free food free medicine etc. None of this will stop until people care.

Capitalist is the most efficient system to redeploy capital.
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