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Old 09-18-2014, 08:03 PM
 
5,342 posts, read 6,171,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Minimum Wage is greater than the poverty level.



Minimum Wage is: $13,920 per year

"The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009" - http://www.dol.gov/whd/minimumwage.htm
7.25/hour X 160 hour = $1,160/month, X 12 = $13,920/year



Poverty level is: $11,670 per year

$11,670 - http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm

$11,670 - http://www.medicaid.gov/Medicaid-CHI...vel-charts.pdf

US$11,490 - Poverty threshold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



$13,920 is greater than $11,670



Now for the math impaired. Let me try that again. Slowly.

$13k is bigger than $11k

If you work fulltime flipping burgers, you can expect to earn over $13k every year [which is more than poverty].

Poverty is less than minimum-wage, poverty level is set at only $11k.



Now in case you missed it. 13 is bigger than 11.

Minimum Wage is greater than the poverty level.



If anyone has a hard time understanding why 13 is more than 11, we can do this again and again and again for you.
There are 52 weeks in a year, not 48' so it's actually:

7.25*40*52 or $15,080
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:53 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotucker99 View Post
Forget Congress, just review the different local and state governments. I'm sure you haven't forgotten about Seattle have you?

Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour

They aren't using some "business negotiation strategy" they are pushing for a $15 an hour wage to drop french fries at McDonalds and move a mop across the floor. That's what they want. If they get 40 hours a week that's about $30,000 a year. You have people with bachelor's degrees that are starting out at about that much a year right now.

In regards to it being illegal for the Subway Corporation to mandate what their independent franchise owners pay, that might be up for debate as the Subway Corporation has a list of organizational formalities that must be followed by each individual owner. If they wanted to mandate that every employee be given "certain benefits" they could most likely do that.

This is just like Warren Buffet getting up moaning about how his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does, when he's paid off capital gains (money that was already taxed ONCE at the income level and then taxed TWICE at the capital gains level) and she's paid off income (money that's being taxed for the FIRST TIME). If Buffet feels as though he's paying too little, then Buffet....what's stopping you from sending in more money? Just put a note with the check that you wanted to "donate" some money to the US Government because you don't believe they are collecting enough in taxes from "the rich". But do you see Buffet doing that? Of course not, because it's all propaganda.

Socialism doesn't hurt the people AT THE TOP, that's why you will find some rich people pushing for it, socialism only hurts the people in the middle and at the bottom.
True socialism and communism do hurt people at the top. But there have never been such utopian societies as humans crave for power, money, and sex.

The American liberal socialism isn't close to socialism. It's a way for rich and elitist lefties to stay in power, reward people selectively, and punish others. It doesn't hurt the rich. But it doesn't really hurt the poor that much either. It hurts the middle class and the upper middle the most. It's sort of a conflict between the very rich and those who want to get rich but not there yet. The upper class and the middle class warfare. The poor are just the tools.

The rich use labor surplus to reduce middle class prosperity and opportunity. They then use the same labor surplus poverty to then bleed the middle and upper middle even more.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
I don't "hate the poor". I was raised poor, but never realized it until I was older.

The business owner bears absolutely zero responsibility for your livelihood, other than offering you fair pay for your value to them.
Think about it. If the business owner has the responsibility for paying ones livelihood, then doesn't that mean that they had the responsibility of becoming a business owner first? Forcing people to pay more is the same as forcing people to start a business. The former is accepted while the latter is not. It's the same thing. You mandate the second step of a process where the first step is voluntary.

The thing is its fine if you do nothing. No one can force. But once you start a business and prove that you are motivated, oh baby you have obligations. It has gone from minimum wage to livable wage. What's next? Desirable wage? Reasonable wage? Good wage? Satisfactory wage? Happy wage?
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
I am absolutely agnostic politically when it comes to illegal immigration.

The fact remains that there are many more low skilled people than there are jobs to support them.
But undocumented immigrants are working. That means the are jobs.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:07 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
So this is the moral code you accept? Theft as an accepted and inevitable paradigm, and we just need to pick the victims?
The truth emerges. Immorality is packaged with morality clothing. This is why the radical left has been one of the most monstrous people in history. They are not changing...
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Socialism hurts everyone, because it is based on a corrupt and depraved premise. That it is acceptable to take the property of one person, and give it to another based on his or her need.

"I need something. You have it. I am going to take it."

Is that a precept upon which to build a rational and moral society? No. Of course not.
It hurts people in different stages. First it hurts the middle class and the upper middle class. The rich embrace a Democratic Party type of socialism. It increases he distance between the middle and the upper and shortens the distance between the middle and the poor. You want to get rich? Not that easy. The rich are still rich. But those who have some hope see their opportunity destroyed. Then the rich rule all of them.

After that, the poor class magnifies. They fight one another to no end.

Eventually the economy is in ruins. Mass atrocities blood wash a once peaceful society. Then the rich will be threatened by angry citizens who don't care about anything. It destroys a society, its social fabric, its morality, its sense of family and community, its competitiveness compared to other societies. Ultimately socialism hurts everyone, including the rich. But in the short term, it's a war against the middle class.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotucker99 View Post
Have you ever operated a small business and hired any employees?
Probably not. Listen to the tone. They have the educational experience. They have a standard of life they figurd out. You must match that. That's their logic.

Immigration! We need more immigrants!
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradPiff View Post
Things like having a smart phone, a GF, kids, nice car(or any car period), living by yourself, and living in a big city are all wants not needs.
The whole concept is "needs" is a subjective one. It's what you make of it. It's basically wants hiding behind needs.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotucker99 View Post
Oh really? What about these left wing protestors in Chicago just the other day? Minimum wage increase coalition visiting aldermen - redeyechicago.com

$15 an hour is what they want, it's not something made up from the right, you are being out right dishonest.



Then how about he regulate all of his Subway independent business owners to pay their employees that then? Just like how some "rich" people wish the tax rates were higher, but yet, they still have their CPA utilize every loophole in the book to reduce their tax rates as low as possible. It's disingenuous as hell.

You want a raise? Increase your skills, education and productivity. You have no skills, no high school education and 4 kids from 4 different loser men? Well, you made your bed......
A $15 minimum wage is not the end. Once people get more, they want more. Greed has no end. This country has turned into this shameful state.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:49 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,220,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Yeah, that's right.

One minute we're expecting highly profitable companies to pay their employees more than a pittance, and the next, a big chunk of the population becomes welfare kings and queens. Happens just like that. It's inevitable. There's no healthy middle ground between letting big business control a country or letting the government run everything. In economics, there are only two options. Extreme, completely unfettered, unregulated capitalism. Or communism. Everything is black or white.

Countries like Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Australia etc? Absolute messes. Total, utter chaos. Filth and squalor everywhere. Nothing but mind-numbing poverty fills the eye. No business of any kind. Zero innovation. 90% unemployment rates. Total government control. People living in shackles, begging in the streets. Police states. Corpses littering the cities from all the violence. The very fortunate few, of course, have joined the mass exodus out, desperately fleeing to healthier business climates.

Yep, makes me shudder just thinking about any of those hellholes. Nothing but overwhelming misery.



Ha. Europe is not a good example. You haven't seen anything yet. Globalization is transforming the European housing market, job market, and education market. Some of the most important things for the next gee eaton of Europeans. Meanwhile their demographics are also changing. The European model and ideas don't necessarily accord with those of euroeps hardworking new immigrants. We'll see. In 30 years, Europe will be much more like the US. European countries will have to go through a fundamental renegotiation of social contract and re envisioning of what kind of societies they are. It is a good thing that Islam is gaining momentum. The modern western civilization is an illness, a cancer. Fortunately America will be more like Mexico and Central America. Europe will embark on another round of its historical patterns with the Middle East, the change of guards, hands, and fortune.
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