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Old 04-17-2014, 12:16 AM
 
30,896 posts, read 36,949,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
The problem with inequality isn't the wealthy, it's the poor. And it's not the wealthy that are creating the poor. They create wealth and some of it spills into the hands of many. It's not as though we have a finite amount of wealth to spread around and the wealthy are grabbing it away from the poor, although that seems to be the belief of some.
I don't think that's quite true. It's true, many poor people are even more myopic and short term in their thinking than most humans. That is the curse of poverty. At the same time, though, there are rich folks, from across the political spectrum that create and encourage dysfunctional behavior the reinforces poverty. To use a left wing example, I'll use welfare, which encourage people with low aspirations to have kids out of wedlock, which often leads to intergenerational poverty. To use a right wing example...I'll say banks and check cashing centers that don't cater to low income people and charge rip off level fees. Then we allow massive immigration of the unskilled, which both conservatives and liberals profit from.

I could give many more examples...and nobody on CD who reads my posts would say I'm soft on poor people....but a certain segment of the rich and powerful definitely do rig the game in their favor.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,235,755 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
Whenever I read the words fair, equality and other words that equal total socialism it makes me think of the societies presented on the show 'Star Trek', 'Star Wars' movies or the movie 'Logan's Run'. These are all futuristic and it seems every citizen has a place, something to do and no wants for anything. They are riding around in what amounts to flying cities while fighting others with the same.

I always wonder what it must be like to live like an ant or honey bee as that is exactly what the people I listed do. Buildings for business or domiciles are always brushed stainless steel and sanitary. Who keeps it all up? How do they pay for it? Who built it and when? You never hear of what they get paid. You see some big houses but usually royals or rulers live in them. Their communism - or whatever you call it - has a class system.
D'ya think Khrushchev, Gorbachev or Putin lived/live like serfs? Nope, the left is ruled by the elite and they are dangerous.
I don't think it's outlandish for fiction set hundreds of years into the future to imagine alternate economic paradigms.

Star Trek is set in the 200-300 years in the future.

Think about how different the world economy was in 1714. The chattel slavery system was in mid-life then.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,235,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
The idea that it doesn't trickle down is hogwash.

The working poor in the US today live the lifestyle of at least the middle class of 100 years ago.

Let's compare the poor of today to the poor of 1000 years ago.

91% of US adults have a cell phone - Cell phone ownership hits 91% of adults | Pew Research Center

97% of US households have televisions - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...sion.html?_r=0

According to the Census Bureau - http://www.census.gov/hhes/well-bein...0-136/tab8.xls
84% of households don't have essential needs met.
92% are up to date on house payment or rent.
90% are current on their utility bills.
Only .5% are being evicted.

Take a look at the data above and explain how our capitalist trickle down system is not working.
How do cel-phones, TVs or "utility bills" matter when comparing those things to a time when the technology did not exist? Consumer goods and technology are of relative value.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:26 AM
 
4,586 posts, read 5,609,406 times
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BUT....It is "conveniently" NOT working purposely to suit certain interests! Those who think it's not working and do nothing about it have no right to complain.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:45 AM
 
20,716 posts, read 19,357,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
The right to make a profit. I'm perfectly happy with my capitalistic, hedonistic lifestyle.
OK, please give me some profits. If you resist I shall consider contacting my neighbors and politicians to force you. If this be too obvious then perhaps I shall just make it a law forcing you to buy my stuff . Or maybe I could put you into a single payer system. I think Macdonald's should have a federal institution called Freddie BigMac. If no one buys then McDonald's will always make a profit. Look what it has done for housing for example...
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:15 AM
 
326 posts, read 471,118 times
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Last time US had capitalism, no one knew who Hitler was.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,863,648 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Capitalism is built to further the acquisition of capital. In the modern world you gain capital by producing advanced technology...
Incorrect. Where do you get such silly ideas?

Capitalism is an economic system where the prices are used by consumers to signal their wants & desires, and producers use those price signals to make all the decisions that must be made in the Theory of the Firm (in contrast to nameless, faceless bureaucrats who are not responsible to anyone making allocation decisions based on the way they want the world to be).

With a free market, goods & services are allocated in the most efficient way possible.

With Capitalism, societal wealth is maximized.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,863,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
A lot of it also depends on luck. If you're born into a wealthy family, it's much easier to get a head start in life...
Which somehow you seem to think is a bad idea.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:55 PM
 
20,716 posts, read 19,357,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Incorrect. Where do you get such silly ideas?

Capitalism is an economic system where the prices are used by consumers to signal their wants & desires, and producers use those price signals to make all the decisions that must be made in the Theory of the Firm (in contrast to nameless, faceless bureaucrats who are not responsible to anyone making allocation decisions based on the way they want the world to be).

With a free market, goods & services are allocated in the most efficient way possible.

With Capitalism, societal wealth is maximized.

What if I offer not to mug you for $50? Is that a service?

Its a bit more complicated than that because "wants and desires" are an abstraction and can be manipulated. If I blow up the damn, you'll want a boat. Looks like a market, but its not.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:29 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,850,642 times
Reputation: 9283
It's funny what New York and California will do to get large corporations to setup in their state with the largest income equality... As long as the governments makes the rules, you will always have income inequality... But what do people want? More government and use capitalism as a scapegoat... The irony...
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