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So what should we be doing to provide a more efficient workforce for the future? First would be a reasonably accurate assessment of the future requirements. Just how many car assemblers, mining truck drivers, oil rig roughnecks, computer programmers and computer users, middle managers, HVAC technicians, college professors, medical doctors, cops, FBI agents, CIA spies, politicians and bankers will we need in the next 10, 20 , 40 and 60 years? Once that is figured out how does the society go about providing the educations and the incentives (money) needed to get people to do these jobs.
It's not necessary to attempt such precision. For secondary education, only necessary to realize the rough proportion of occupations that require robust technical preparation and robust liberal arts preparation.
Today, the overwheming emphasis is on pushing all kids into liberal arts preparation, even though the most cursory scan of society indicates exactly the opposite approach. The greater proportion of kids need a differentiation at 9th or 10th grade into a curriculum that hammers basics like technical writing and reading, algebra and plane geometry, and applied sciences and technology until they have them down cold. They they're ready for various kinds of technical training afterward. Moreover, a curriculum of direct application will also keep many more of them in school.
The other part is determining the proportion of advanced technical training resources and opportunities necessary compared to the proportion of advanced liberal arts education that is necessary. Again, what we've done so far is exactly the opposite of what any study of the actual market would indicate. We support far more opportunities for liberal arts education while ignoring and even denigrating technical traning.
Considering the graduates of most Education degree programs are quite knowledgeable in the liberal arts but have no idea how to drive a nail with a hammer who is going to teach the kids the technical courses? The underlying problem is social. Even if your car repair technician or HVAC repairman is making more then a college educated English teacher the mechanic is not considered the social equal. When I was in college there was a major social difference between the Liberal Arts students destined to become teachers, lawyers and business managers and we mere engineers learning to build the world the Liberal Arts students would live in. They considered the guys that kept the place warm in the winter and cool in the summer beneath consideration. Annoying preppies.
If we are teaching folks in the manner that seems to be opposite of the society demand (far more Liberal Arts the engineers and technicians) why are some of the Libs paid far more in their future careers? If there was an actual shortage of engineers and technicians then engineers and technicians would be paid the same or more than lawyers or business managers. Is there an explanation for this discrepancy?
Considering the graduates of most Education degree programs are quite knowledgeable in the liberal arts but have no idea how to drive a nail with a hammer who is going to teach the kids the technical courses?
When I was in junior high school, we still had "shop" class, so it's not unheard of to have teachers of applied sciences in high schools. They are in the community colleges, which is what most kids today have to spin their wheels for two years waiting for today. Those community colleges usually even provide the remedial courses the kids need, having largely wasted their last two years of high school. The easiest and most immediate route would be to release those kids at 10th grade straight to those community colleges (paid for by the school district), although that is a poor long-term solution.
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The underlying problem is social. Even if your car repair technician or HVAC repairman is making more then a college educated English teacher the mechanic is not considered the social equal. When I was in college there was a major social difference between the Liberal Arts students destined to become teachers, lawyers and business managers and we mere engineers learning to build the world the Liberal Arts students would live in. They considered the guys that kept the place warm in the winter and cool in the summer beneath consideration. Annoying preppies.
That was also true in ancient Greece. Oh, well.
But I've found far more engineers whose hobby is history or art than historians and artists whose hobby is engineering.
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If we are teaching folks in the manner that seems to be opposite of the society demand (far more Liberal Arts the engineers and technicians) why are some of the Libs paid far more in their future careers? If there was an actual shortage of engineers and technicians then engineers and technicians would be paid the same or more than lawyers or business managers. Is there an explanation for this discrepancy?
I only see that happening in the managerial levels, and then only when comparing non-managerial engineers with managerial non-engineers. But overall, technicians make more money in this society than non-technicians.
Yeah, especially TallTraveler's son who is in his 20s and making $200,000.
Since you have fairly impressive credentials and are getting nowhere, have you considered the possibility that you are consistently doing something to undercut yourself? I don't know you so I can't guess what it is, but that seems like a place to start.
It's the disparity of the trades and the trades versus non trades.
Considering the graduates of most Education degree programs are quite knowledgeable in the liberal arts...
To my untrained eye they don't seem to know Shakespeare from Miley Cyrus.
Here in Illinois, public school teachers are heavily recruited from the bottom third of the class in the worst two public universities in the state (Illinois State and Chicago State). I'd be surprised if it's that different elsewhere.
If a highly educated workforce is the way to a vibrant American economy and a middle class life, then this many over educated young adults would have jobs. But they don't.
This is the myth of a highly educated workforce. It must also define what exactly is "highly educated." A person with a broad understanding of history end up working at Starbucks.
Today's reality shows that highly educated background doesn't lead to a middle class life or a vibrant American economy.
Todays reality is that the vast majority of people are very poorly educated, and that the current education system is a complete failure.
A truly educated population would do the things necessary to correct the economy and to return control of government and economic policy to the people.
The definition of a highly educated workforce is one in which people have a true working knowledge of practical application of the sciences as well as economics.
The current population are highly propagandized morons trained for a place in a system designed to create worker bees who will do repetitious mind numbing tasks without questioning the system or ever thinking for themselves.
Bachelor's degree in Nutrition Science; Associate Degree Business Administration. Graduated with honors from Penn State University. Add to this a Certified Dietary Manager, ServSafe Certified, and TIPs Certified (trained officially to serve alcohol at establishments)
Can't seem to land even a cooking position, let alone a position of Food Service Manager at the local grocery store food chain. Over five years experience working as a server in multiple settings including fine dining and have been passed over for less experienced/educated workers.
Most positions in this area being posted do not even require a degree. Many of these include management positions at various restaurants/hotels, etc..
For the few (and it looks like a very few) jobs that require bachelor's degrees, they do not have a shortage of applications.
I've worked with a number of people with bachelor's degrees in legitimate fields that worked with me as a server at the one restaurant I worked at.
It's all about who you know in the end.
I do not recommend people going to college (unless at a community college for technical degree such as PTA, OTA, etc) due to the high cost (in both time and cost) with so little job prospects when coming out.
They will, as I am, have trouble finding out how they will be able to simply pay down their student loan debt.. not to mention ever making enough money to viably support a family.
generation x, y, z can look forward to poverty.
I feel your pain, and you're a smart kid if you got into and went to an excellent school like Penn State, but I got to question the value of a bachelor's degree like Nutrition Science. Seems like a field that in which one has to get at least a graduate, if not a PhD, to work in such a limited field? If you got a degree in something like engineering/computer science, nursing, or even biology, I think you're options would be much better...especially coming out Penn State. Also, what metro area are you in right now?
You did hit on one thing about it's about who you know. Did you get the chance to tap into the alumni network at Penn State? That's a great source to find jobs, because most jobs that open are usually filled privately, and yes, your network helps.
the only reason we have an economy at all is bek many undocs are willing to come here and work their way up to a traditional trade. something distained by our kidults. america does not need 20 million more managers with general ed advanced degrees. ask anybody working at starbucks.
I am very, very glad I am not looking for a job in the economy we have had for the last couple of decades. I have a degree in Environmental Science and have managed to make a living in that field over the last 45 years. Not get wealthy but make a living with a good pension. I would not be able to do that as a new graduate. There simply are not enough jobs available.
Posters have mentioned the skilled trades. I have a forty year old friend that is a skilled Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning (HVAC) technician. He is also a conscientious worker that will climb onto the roof of a supermarket to service the machinery in a howling Nor'easter. After 20 years of experience he is making under 50k a year. Where is the incentive for a kid to learn this, or any other, complicated technology when they will be poorly paid to start and worse (inflation) as the years go by.
I was, and still am but a bit rusty, a machinist, machine builder and repairman. Given the tools and materials I can make or fix any machine you want. I could not figure out how to make a decent living doing this kind of work for a company. I could not start my own business because I never has the capital available to buy the shop space, tools and/or materials, let alone finding customers, to start my own business. This was unfortunate because I really like doing that kind of work but being a bureaucrat paid better and was far more secure.
I'm not the biggest Michael Bloomberg fan, but he makes a great point here (thought I don't Harvard College is the best example):
To my untrained eye they don't seem to know Shakespeare from Miley Cyrus.
Here in Illinois, public school teachers are heavily recruited from the bottom third of the class in the worst two public universities in the state (Illinois State and Chicago State). I'd be surprised if it's that different elsewhere.
Don't education majors tend to have the higher GPA's and perhaps the least challenging curriculums?
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