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The above is both overly simplistic and inaccurate. While I certainly agree that millennials were too young to be held responsible, I maintain that the crashing of the economy was pretty much inevitable because it was rooted partly in human nature (greed and short-term versus long-term thinking) and partly in the worldwide economic reality which ended the post World War II monopoly of the United States on industrial production.
Once easy credit became absurdly obtainable, then people availed themselves of it, much to their own detriment. It was a historical progression, in a sense, however much we may deplore it. I am 70 and I deplore it. (I didn't participate in it either). I also recognize that your generation has it harder, at least for the time being (and perhaps for the longer term also).
What I am saying is that generational finger pointing mostly masks the complexities of causes and the interrelatedness of world wide phenomena.
I agree. Finger pointing doesn't do anything to help. And I know several boomers that lost a lot in the recession. Everyone was effected negatively, but some generations in different ways. We must all be sympathetic.
I honestly mis-read that posters intentions it looks like. I thought he was making a jab at Millennials, so I made a jab back. I apologize for my misunderstanding.
Last edited by CravingMountains; 09-10-2014 at 01:35 AM..
I don't see millennials acting "entitled" as some say. They aren't pretending they've been given a good opportunity, either, though. They know that the future is going to be tougher than it was for their moms and dads, and they aren't pretending to be grateful for some crappy job and loads of student load debt from a failed system. I see a lot of young people working really hard without much incentive or help from anyone.
I have no problem with the millennials. Don't even care for the label.
Yet, if you compare their opportunities & challenges to any other part of the world or even any other time in mankind's history, I don't really see anything to complain about either.
Now if you compare them to the absolute peak of opportunity in the US, which could possibly be their parents or grandparents generations, then perhaps things are not as quite as good. But that is like comparing your investment portfolio during a downturn to the bubble peak it previously reached. A complete waste of time.
Relatively speaking, being a US citizen growing up in the last 20-30 years has been a freaking cakewalk!
I'd be concerned that accepting the notion that things are dire is the path to futility and possibly failure. It is the sort of thinking that comes from too much information: 24 hour TV "news", forums like these and listening to clueless people who are, perhaps, less than actualized themselves. If you wallow long enough in that mire, it WILL become your reality.
Relative to being drafted to fight (and die) in Vietnam, or trench warfare in WW I or being eaten by Sabre Toothed Tigers or settling the west or building the railroads or the vast experience of the human condition, getting a college degree while surfing the net from your smartphone is difficult to classify as a bad deal! No matter how much debt you voluntarily take upon yourself.
And buying deeply depreciated properties with 30 year loans at 4% will someday be seen as a missed opportunity by many who fall into this way of thinking.
Every generation says that until they hit about 30 and wake up. Remember that todays Corporate management was yesterdays hippy.
You got it.
NOT that that makes it okay that the Boomer generation did a 180 to become more materialistic, war-mongering, and greedy than THEIR parents were. Not at all. As a Gen Xer, it still makes me laugh (and not in a good way).
But when the Millennials talk about how they've invented the Fu** The Establishment routine, they crack me up, too. But, all the power to 'em. Long may their minimalist, progressive, hipster ways continue. I much prefer them to the corporate, commercial schtick, myself.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 09-10-2014 at 07:26 AM..
The above is both overly simplistic and inaccurate. While I certainly agree that millennials were too young to be held responsible, I maintain that the crashing of the economy was pretty much inevitable because it was rooted partly in human nature (greed and short-term versus long-term thinking) and partly in the worldwide economic reality which ended the post World War II monopoly of the United States on industrial production.
Once easy credit became absurdly obtainable, then people availed themselves of it, much to their own detriment. It was a historical progression, in a sense, however much we may deplore it. I am 70 and I deplore it. (I didn't participate in it either). I also recognize that your generation has it harder, at least for the time being (and perhaps for the longer term also).
What I am saying is that generational finger pointing mostly masks the complexities of causes and the interrelatedness of world wide phenomena.
Good post.
I would add that while blame and finger pointing helps divert from addressing real issues, it also allows the ones doing the pointing from dealing with their own inadequacies. Some of those complaining should take a long hard look at how they got where they are. Want to blame someone? They should look at their own parents, not some faceless "baby boomers". What were their own parents doing while they should have been preparing to assist their children with the inevitable expense of higher education? My bet is enjoying vacations and new cars, rather than building a college fund.
Product of a single parent household? Mom couldn't make ends meet? Unless the breadwinner died unexpectedly with no life insurance, it was probably the result of bad choices a lot closer to home than unidentified strangers. Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of young adults with a tough row to hoe. Most of them got a raw deal, but not from strangers. From their wholly inadequate parents! And the young adults that I know, who are doing well, all have one thing in common: good parents and a healthy family structure.
I have no problem with the millennials. Don't even care for the label.
Yet, if you compare their opportunities & challenges to any other part of the world or even any other time in mankind's history, I don't really see anything to complain about either.
Now if you compare them to the absolute peak of opportunity in the US, which could possibly be their parents or grandparents generations, then perhaps things are not as quite as good. But that is like comparing your investment portfolio during a downturn to the bubble peak it previously reached. A complete waste of time.
Relatively speaking, being a US citizen growing up in the last 20-30 years has been a freaking cakewalk!
I'd be concerned that accepting the notion that things are dire is the path to futility and possibly failure. It is the sort of thinking that comes from too much information: 24 hour TV "news", forums like these and listening to clueless people who are, perhaps, less than actualized themselves. If you wallow long enough in that mire, it WILL become your reality.
Relative to being drafted to fight (and die) in Vietnam, or trench warfare in WW I or being eaten by Sabre Toothed Tigers or settling the west or building the railroads or the vast experience of the human condition, getting a college degree while surfing the net from your smartphone is difficult to classify as a bad deal! No matter how much debt you voluntarily take upon yourself.
And buying deeply depreciated properties with 30 year loans at 4% will someday be seen as a missed opportunity by many who fall into this way of thinking.
Innovation that is useful to day-to-day life absolutely seems to be slowing. Is a hybrid as big of an innovation as the internal combustion engine? No. Is video conferencing as a big of an innovation as jet travel? Is the internet as critical as electricity? No. We're still innovating, but the utility of what we are creating above what we already had seems to be decreasing.
Why does the state of FL own 50% of PRIVATE PROPERTY???
Most of that is the Everglades. Most people don't want to live in the mosquito infested Everglades and if the Everglades were drained, the already fragile water supply of South Florida would be threatened even more.
1) Generally not qualifying for federal loans means you're doing something stupid that you shouldn't be doing. There's always exceptions, of course, but it's a pretty good rule.
2) That is possibly a concern, if it becomes an issue it will probably be addressed similar to mortgage loan forgiveness so I'm not overly concerned with it.
3) Graduate degree is also going to put you in, what, generally the top 10% for earning capacity? Who exactly should be subsidizing the highest income earners? Working stiffs? F that. They can pay for their own lifestyles, imo, they don't need to be on public assistance. Plus, just being honest here, there's a lot of ways of getting a graduate degree without all that debt. Universities are always exchanging pieces of paper in exchange for indentured servants even if employers have really cut back in actually sending people to graduate school.
The $200,000 in loans I was looking at for law school was about half the reason I decided not to go. I'm still tossing the idea around, but unless the legal job market really improves I'm not taking on that debt. I mean, I have some connections since I work in the legal sector but between the debt, lost income while in law school, it's not all that appealing for what I could expect to make coming out. No biggie. It's not like the world really needs anymore lawyers anyway.
#1 and #3 are missing the point.
I agree that someone getting into trouble that way is largely to blame for poor decisions; however, that doesn't change the fact that it's a drag on the economy.
1) Generally not qualifying for federal loans means you're doing something stupid that you shouldn't be doing. There's always exceptions, of course, but it's a pretty good rule.
2) That is possibly a concern, if it becomes an issue it will probably be addressed similar to mortgage loan forgiveness so I'm not overly concerned with it.
3) Graduate degree is also going to put you in, what, generally the top 10% for earning capacity? Who exactly should be subsidizing the highest income earners? Working stiffs? F that. They can pay for their own lifestyles, imo, they don't need to be on public assistance. Plus, just being honest here, there's a lot of ways of getting a graduate degree without all that debt. Universities are always exchanging pieces of paper in exchange for indentured servants even if employers have really cut back in actually sending people to graduate school.
The $200,000 in loans I was looking at for law school was about half the reason I decided not to go. I'm still tossing the idea around, but unless the legal job market really improves I'm not taking on that debt. I mean, I have some connections since I work in the legal sector but between the debt, lost income while in law school, it's not all that appealing for what I could expect to make coming out. No biggie. It's not like the world really needs anymore lawyers anyway.
#1. Disagree. For only children it is VERY hard to get loans/grants even if their parents are poor.
#3. Agree. Many programs for things like PhDs, the students are actually paid. Not a lot, but enough for food/housing and a comfortable student lifestyle.
For some things you have to weigh your options. You did. Lawyers are a dime a dozen in the US. If I theoretically got accepted to Harvard or Yale Law school, I would personally rather live with the debt than regret of not going. But in most cases, you probably made the right call.
#1. Disagree. For only children it is VERY hard to get loans/grants even if their parents are poor.
#3. Agree. Many programs for things like PhDs, the students are actually paid. Not a lot, but enough for food/housing and a comfortable student lifestyle.
For some things you have to weigh your options. You did. Lawyers are a dime a dozen in the US. If I theoretically got accepted to Harvard or Yale Law school, I would personally rather live with the debt than regret of not going. But in most cases, you probably made the right call.
Highly location dependent. In some parts of the Bay Area it's virtually impossible. Even in some less outrageous cost of living areas, you have to forgo owning a car at all - unless you can split the expenses with an SO.
If the millennials are staying with mom and dad longer, shouldn't they be saving more money as well? Why does real estate have to be the center of the universe when it comes to net worth??? Didn't we learn anything from the recent recession?
Realistically, millenials are well suited for this job market, since fewer are tied down with a house.
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