Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:47 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,264,758 times
Reputation: 3444

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Actually, if poor people get richer, it's bad for many people, e.g. if poor people became rich enough to buy homes, landlords would be out of business,
Nah, they want spinners and big trucks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,639,632 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
It's avoidable by not having a sales tax. One way to reduce the regressivity of a sales tax is to exempt used items. I don't think states should get more than one bite at a sales tax apple.
Yes, it could be avoided by not have a sales tax. States would then need to raise income tax rates to compensate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,639,632 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Actually, if poor people get richer, it's bad for many people, e.g. if poor people became rich enough to buy homes, landlords would be out of business,
Nah. Some people prefer to rent. Commercial real estate is more lucrative than residential real estate anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:55 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,264,758 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Nah. Some people prefer to rent. Commercial real estate is more lucrative than residential real estate anyway.
It is more difficult to get a loan though. I was recently looking at a place that had 5 apts, but the bank classified it as commercial and would only provide a 10 yr loan amortized over 25 years. I had to go with a 3 flat instead. Office buildings in my area had a lower ROI, but longer leases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:29 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
It is more difficult to get a loan though. I was recently looking at a place that had 5 apts, but the bank classified it as commercial and would only provide a 10 yr loan amortized over 25 years. I had to go with a 3 flat instead. Office buildings in my area had a lower ROI, but longer leases.

General rule is to classify everything more than 4 units as commercial rather than residential.

I hate balloon-payment loans, I wouldn't want to face a 10th year balloon payment and a potential distress sale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:33 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Yes, it could be avoided by not have a sales tax. States would then need to raise income tax rates to compensate.

Or states could reduce spending and reduce tax breaks. Homeowners in Michigan get a billion-dollar tax break simply by owning their home. Is this a great country or what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:35 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,264,758 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
General rule is to classify everything more than 4 units as commercial rather than residential.

I hate balloon-payment loans, I wouldn't want to face a 10th year balloon payment and a potential distress sale.
The problem I faced was similar. I had no idea if the banks would be able to rollover my loan in 10yrs or not and I want to put the excess money into equities rather than paying down the loan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:44 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Nah, they want spinners and big trucks.

Not the hypereducated poor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,710,630 times
Reputation: 25616
The problem with this country's tax code is that it's out of date and unrealistic. To qualify as being poor in some state one has to file income below $25k, which is absurd because people who make that much might as well just not work and collect welfare. Today, if you make below $40k for a family then you are poor but you can't qualify for many of the tax rebates and assistances!!

You have too many people that make more than the state/fed assistance limit, so all they can do is work for cash so they can cheat the system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
That's true, you could file an income tax return and receive a refundable credit. It would have to be federal, at least in states with no income tax. Then the states would need to remit the refunded dollars to the federal government. Or maybe the states with no income tax would need to start one, since they just lost a big chunk of their tax base. What a mess.

Also, it does little to ease the burden of the sales tax on the poor, as they will have to front the money and wait for their refund.
However most of the ideas for this from the right or even far right want to get rid of the IRS and make it no credit, they just give you a preemptive rebate or prebate. This is what is considered the Fair Tax, a dollar inclusive sales tax proposal on goods and services at 23 cents on the dollar included in the price to replace all income and payroll taxes. The good news is you get a prebate of $209 per person in your family each month. The downside is there is no exception to goods so long as they are new are taxed no matter if it is needs like food, clothing and medicine OR DVDs, TVs and new houses, as well as everyone including the rich get the prebate and a tax cut whether it is given back to the community or not.

Sounds like a good idea, replace most federal withholding, no paperwork, the IRS is off your back, taxes decrease if you make more than an effective 23%. But here's the issue. The budget will need to be cut drastically. Now instead of having specific taxes for social security and medicare, they come out of the general fund as does the prebate. A family of four has $10k in prebate every year no matter if they are rich or poor and that comes from somewhere, your neighbor's taxes. If you and your spouse make 90,000 a year with a family of 4 spending 80% of your income, you effectively pay for your neighbor with a family of 4 with your $16.5K tax liability, leaving 6.5K for everything else that your taxes paid for before as well as what was covered in payroll taxes.

I created an Excel Table, and added it as an attachment to show you. You can play around with it but remember, your taxes may increase (especially on the lower end) but only to cover your neighbors. This don't fix spending problems, this just creates problem bringing in tax revenue to cover spending.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Fair Tax Math.zip (7.5 KB, 6 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top