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There seems to be some confusion about self-driving cars. Autonomous vehicles are not AI, they are expert systems. You just run through a pre-programmed decision tree. Their pattern recognition requires sophisticated processing, but no intelligence.
You are right. AI is not a requirement for self driving cars. There is a reason that AI could be important. Decision making in driving is exceedingly complex. It is virtually impossible to program a computer to correctly make all of the required decisions. AI means the system could be self learning and move beyond the need for a programming to program every possible decision. For a self driving car and for many other complex tasks we need to move beyond programming by Dilbert.
There seems to be some confusion about self-driving cars. Autonomous vehicles are not AI, they are expert systems. You just run through a pre-programmed decision tree. Their pattern recognition requires sophisticated processing, but no intelligence.
Ah. Do they do semantic analysis, too? Because one of those could probably reduce this thread to a matchbook cover by stripping out all the idiocy caused by focusing on either narrow or nonsensical interpretations of:
efficiency
automation
robotics
AI
and now, "expert systems."
If it will make you happy, it won't take much more than "expert systems" to do that next round of job replacements. Call it automation, call it expert-systeming, call it AI, call it a smeerp if you like. Won't stop it.
Ah. Do they do semantic analysis, too? Because one of those could probably reduce this thread to a matchbook cover by stripping out all the idiocy caused by focusing on either narrow or nonsensical interpretations of:
efficiency
automation
robotics
AI
and now, "expert systems."
If it will make you happy, it won't take much more than "expert systems" to do that next round of job replacements. Call it automation, call it expert-systeming, call it AI, call it a smeerp if you like. Won't stop it.
I was just trying to help out the people who apparently don't know there is a difference between expert systems and AI. I guess I should have anticipated that some people don't know what expert systems are. Essentially, they are a decision tree. A flow chart is a picture of a simple expert system. You run into expert systems every time you tech support call ends up with some half trained moron in India. "Please unplug your router, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in." It doesn't matter if you are already 10 steps down the tree, they have to go through it. There is no intelligence involved, of any kind, by any participant.
There is a vast gulf between semantics and technical definitions. Non-technical people often think they can talk about things without a fixed definition of terms. Engineers do not think like that. When they talk about robots they do not think they are talking about tin guys with glowing eyes. The machine learning we have now is about on the level of a lab rat, albeit a literate rat. It's a precursor, not an end product.
It's my personal belief that a creative AI is going to require a different memory architecture that allows random associations and arbitrary patterns. It may be possible to emulate that with our current RAM and CPU technology, through brute force. It would be easier if memory could talk to itself and form random associations for evaluation. There has been some research in this area with neural nets, but the hardware is an obstacle.
Unemployment is a social problem, and just a side effect of automation. The problem is not too few jobs, it is jobs/people. Remove jobs and add people, you have rising unemployment. You can solve the problem by either adding jobs or removing people. As automation becomes cheaper and more sophisticated, the number of jobs will continue to drop. That leaves removing people. People don't want their reproductive rights messed with. Like I said, a social problem, not a technical problem. I'm afraid that if we don't practice birth control we are going to have a chance to try death control.
Unemployment is a social problem, and just a side effect of automation. The problem is not too few jobs, it is jobs/people. Remove jobs and add people, you have rising unemployment. You can solve the problem by either adding jobs or removing people. As automation becomes cheaper and more sophisticated, the number of jobs will continue to drop. That leaves removing people.
Okay, well, if this were an engineering class or an elementary level word problem, the solution could be reduced to all that. Unfortunately, the equations of the real world are a bit more complex and (to their advantage) can find solutions outside the narrow range of a textbook.
What will break here is not engineering (the march towards increasing levels of automation and machine intelligence, whatever terms you care to use, will continue). What will break here will not be population, not within the lifetimes of anyone reading this nor (I suspect) quite a while longer.
So what will break? Our classical, carved-from-marble, venerated notions of economics. And it's just amazin' how many problems it frettingly defines will just sort of... vanish. (Kind of like driving around a tree instead of insisting we have to go right through it, but can't.)
I was just trying to help out the people who apparently don't know there is a difference between expert systems and AI. I guess I should have anticipated that some people don't know what expert systems are. Essentially, they are a decision tree. A flow chart is a picture of a simple expert system. You run into expert systems every time you tech support call ends up with some half trained moron in India. "Please unplug your router, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in." It doesn't matter if you are already 10 steps down the tree, they have to go through it. There is no intelligence involved, of any kind, by any participant.
There is a vast gulf between semantics and technical definitions. Non-technical people often think they can talk about things without a fixed definition of terms. Engineers do not think like that. When they talk about robots they do not think they are talking about tin guys with glowing eyes. The machine learning we have now is about on the level of a lab rat, albeit a literate rat. It's a precursor, not an end product.
It's my personal belief that a creative AI is going to require a different memory architecture that allows random associations and arbitrary patterns. It may be possible to emulate that with our current RAM and CPU technology, through brute force. It would be easier if memory could talk to itself and form random associations for evaluation. There has been some research in this area with neural nets, but the hardware is an obstacle.
Unemployment is a social problem, and just a side effect of automation. The problem is not too few jobs, it is jobs/people. Remove jobs and add people, you have rising unemployment. You can solve the problem by either adding jobs or removing people. As automation becomes cheaper and more sophisticated, the number of jobs will continue to drop. That leaves removing people. People don't want their reproductive rights messed with. Like I said, a social problem, not a technical problem. I'm afraid that if we don't practice birth control we are going to have a chance to try death control.
This is why alot of people think the end times are right around the corner because as resources dry up and war for resources results in MAD you have the end of the world. Eventually someone is going to use a nuke if the situation for resources gets bad enough.
Its not just warring tribes anymore where you can roll in and wipe out a group divy up the spoils and life goes on, this time around the nuclear fall out will be severe and effect large parts of the world.
There will be some non nuclear regional conflicts (like we are seeing in Syria) that thin people out but it will be penny anty compared to the total world population.
I dont know that a plauge will do it as the population density in India and China the statistical probability of billions being wiped out in a plauge is high but yet its not happened. God is having alot of patience with people because in all reality the fact that there has not been a major catalytic event does not really make sense.
Just because group A is making a crap ton of stuff with robots does not mean group B is bennifiting from it and when group B gets desperate enough they will either develop nuclear capability or they may already have it and use it. If everyone is starving to death what difference does it make if they nuke you back?
People eating fligmenong and sitting in mcmansons sipping martinis have ALOT more to loose. The ones sitting in the mcmansions like to tout how its not a 0 sum game .... but really it is, there is only so much metal, so much farmable land, so much fresh water, so much buildable habitable land, etc.
Much of the earth is inhospitable and requires alot of resources for people to live there, those resources have to be shipped in from somewhere else (usually a trade off to extract some finite hard to get resource like oil). The only reason the Russain M56 road exists is to get to mining and oil assets, those places are inhospitable for people to live otherwise. Same with places in the middle of the desert where water has to be piped in just to support the workers.
Robotics already have changed everything. We have millions of "low skilled" unemployed citizens sitting at home addicted to opiods (Demerol) and buying food with government programs. Not a pretty picture, a miserable existence to be precise.
Now we give Musk 5 billion/year in government subsidies. Musk is working diligently on driverless cars. Driving? That is the largest employer of men.
Newsflash. People of average or below intelligence are not going back to school and getting an IT degree. Especially those who are middle aged..and beyond.
What do you think will happen to the airlines? Lodging? Dining? I might tell those industries to KMA and duct tape my hand to the sensor. Drive 1500 miles/day.
Man. Man is our own worst enemy. Peoplekind for Prime Minister Soyboy Cuckadian.
I was just trying to help out the people who apparently don't know there is a difference between expert systems and AI. ...
There is a vast gulf between semantics and technical definitions. ...
It's my personal belief that a creative AI is going to require a different memory architecture that allows random associations and arbitrary patterns. ...
Thank you for being the voice of reason (literally)! Also missing from many people's conception, is the difference between semantics and syntactics. Syntactics is the formal following of rules (however complex, or even however imaginative). Semantics is the meaning-content behind the rules.
You are right. AI is not a requirement for self driving cars. There is a reason that AI could be important. Decision making in driving is exceedingly complex. It is virtually impossible to program a computer to correctly make all of the required decisions. AI means the system could be self learning and move beyond the need for a programming to program every possible decision. For a self driving car and for many other complex tasks we need to move beyond programming by Dilbert.
Well, that's the fairy tale spun by the strong AI crowd. Self-learning automatons will seamlessly adapt to their environment and expand their capabilities with time and experience.
Now lets return to the real world of flesh and blood and lawyers. What happens if one of these mythical, self-programming 'bots accidentally kills a human? Are they going to charge the $5 ARM CPU chip with vehicular homicide? No, of course not, the lawyers will go after the maker, and likely "Dilbert" too.
...the difference between semantics and syntactics...
Holy bovines.
Cue the OCD, AS, CLUE- debate about the diff between syntactics and semiotics...
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