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Old 04-27-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,600,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Someone's been watching too much Rachel Maddow and Al Sharpton.
I don't know who they are, but Supposn's statement about the trade balance is spot on.
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:41 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,394,707 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Per day? Really? Source?
Really? Simple math. Lets see...

Koch brothers.
Net wealth in 2004 looks like 7 billion.
Forbes: Koch Brothers Now Worth $50 Billion | ThinkProgress

today? 85-100 billion. numbers vary. So some math. 2004-2015 is 11 years, 4,015 days. lets use the 85 billion estimate....meaning 78 billion. 19.5 million per day. (thats after whatever their current spending is). thus, 9.75 million per day per Koch.

Now they are a easy target. But the walton family, and many many others did just as good or better.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:24 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,486,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Opin Yunated is absolutely right here. While taxes are necessary for State and local government support, the Federal Government does not need taxes in any way, shape, of form to support its operations.

To understand this you need to understand how money is created and destroyed. The vast majority of people confuse money with the cash that is in circulation.

The majority of the money is simply keystrokes on a computer and is only virtual in its existence.
The Federal Government has the ability to simply print whatever funds it needs with a single keystroke.

The amount of so called debt, is an illusion. It is not inflationary because it has no bearing whatsoever on the M2 or the actual supply of cash in circulation.

The only purpose the income tax serves, it to control the income of the citizens and to give the government control of the workforce.

If the government were to allow people to reap the full rewards of their own labor, the most industrious of the workforce would in short order be able to retire and leave the workforce creating a downward spiral in the competency and productivity of the labor market.

It is only through taxation that the government can enforce wage slavery and keep the most productive people in the workforce for the maximum amount of time possible.
Very very good up until the last.

Most people work to be productive, enrich as well as make money gains in their lives. Many people would continue to work despite being rich or filthy rich. Taxes or not. Only very high marginal rates seriously discourage more work. Way more than current rates.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:27 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,486,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The US dollar is unique in that it is the reserve currency of the world. That changes the dynamic of inflation by including the GDP of everything that is purchased by dollars world wide. In addition, you must take into account the fact that with a fiat currency, every debt which is defaulted on decreases the money supply by instantaneously erasing whatever amount of debt is defaulted on.

Central bankers wish to keep inflation going, but the reality of the situation is that they are going to extreme measures to prevent deflation because the problem in the economy is not one of inflation but of overvalued assets.

The FED has done everything in its power to inflate the value of assets in order to prevent the default of the loans that financed those assets, but that effort has had very negative consequences in that with the FED rate currently at .25% it has nothing left to use if and when the next crash occurs and the defaults on borrowed money causes assets to devalue and begins a cycle of devaluation and default which the FED will be powerless to stop.

Inflation is as much a phenomena of demographics as it is of economics. Demographics dictate that the US is going to need to go through a serious period of deflation and that is the real danger going forward.

The true cause of inflation is that the FED loans every dollar into existence. Every dollar created is worth less than its value at the very moment of its creation because it is loaned into existence at interest, and we all know the power of compounding interest. The only way to stop that phenomena, is to eliminate the FED and for the Treasury to once again create the money without interest as it was prior to the creation of the FED.
Again, very good up until the last.

The Fed transfers $80-100B in interest payments to the Treasury every year. Private bank though do indeed lend (create) money (debt) with interest.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:37 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,394,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Know Nonsense View Post
Can you give an example of this?

The socialistic welfare economy, what is going on now and growing, is based on trickle up economics which only make the government bigger and the rich richer, The lower 'poor' class are only pawns used in this socialist/communist economy. The middle working class are the middle men transfering the money to upper class.

In a proper free market economy work is done with as little govt intervention as possible. This is what works for the long term economic health as long as the people know how to handle their money.
Socialistic policies are a cancer to the economy. You may think it is healthy but there is a big unhealthy mass festering inside of it.
Sure, I go buy a steak dinner. Me and all the others doing so are why someone is employed making it.

Poor folks? Well they pay rent to someone who owns the house, HE goes and buys steak dinner.

Poor folks buy food, making money for everyone along the way

etc etc etc.

The majority of our economy is based off of poorer people buying things, and the money trickling up.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,293,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
I certainly never hopes it comes to that, but the FED does have other tools in their toolbox that have never been used. Some of these are theoretical tools and it is unknown if they will work.

Examples include money designed to lose value if not spent (e.g., lose X% per month), and when spent, they automatically reload to 100% of value and then start declining in value again.

These things are all theoretical, of course, and with luck they will never need to be used.
We already have a population that is spending future earnings for todays consumption. Debt has a very definitive limit and we are bumping up against it now.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,293,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Very very good up until the last.

Most people work to be productive, enrich as well as make money gains in their lives. Many people would continue to work despite being rich or filthy rich. Taxes or not. Only very high marginal rates seriously discourage more work. Way more than current rates.
While some people enjoy their work, I am willing to bet that they are the minority and most of us would peruse other interests if our financial needs were satisfied.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:14 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,293,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Again, very good up until the last.

The Fed transfers $80-100B in interest payments to the Treasury every year. Private bank though do indeed lend (create) money (debt) with interest.
Yes, but because we are not able to audit the FED, we have no idea what they are skimming from the system. In addition, the banks operate under the FED's system of money creation so some of our money is created directly by the FED rate and some of it is created at bank rates for consumer purchases.

A loan originated at 6% interest is automatically inflationary because the money loaned is worth 6% per year less than the money with which it will be repaid. In addition you are depleting tomorrows earnings in order to consume today. The reason you are doing so is that you cannot support your lifestyle with your current earnings, and yet you are stealing tomorrow's earnings in the hope that your income will increase going forward which is a highly speculative gamble in todays employment environment.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:23 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,486,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
While some people enjoy their work, I am willing to bet that they are the minority and most of us would peruse other interests if our financial needs were satisfied.
I don't doubt that people with menial jobs and hard labor would pass on work.
And I don't doubt that a bunch with fine jobs will eventually retire.
Realistically I don't think we'll be seeing masses of idle rich.
I haven't needed to work for some time now. But as doc I enjoy what I do. And still have long since gotten in enough play time.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:24 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,486,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
We already have a population that is spending future earnings for todays consumption. Debt has a very definitive limit and we are bumping up against it now.
Our National Debt will be higher every year, and we will persist as a very productive nation. No doubts in my mind.
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