Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
besides what "point"? You mean besides the point you have in your head. Everything he said is correct. The bunk for ages has been how H1B are paid lower than their US qualified equivalents - you can find that argument many times right here ion this board. This actual-survey-not-anecdote disproves that point. Your point, whatever it may be you are arguing in your head about and with whom, is besides the point of this post.
"The point" is referring to the argument that H1B's allow companies to get cheap labor by reducing wages, which (I thought...) is what OP is responding to, but I of course can be mistaken.
Study shows that h1b visa holders are not stagnating wages. They do participate in competition, but that's market economy and competition is good for our industries. If you say it is competition, I can understand. But the low wage argument denies that there is normal fair competition.
No. Such a study is impossible, even in principle. You cannot go back in time and test an alternate reality in which the number of h1B visas was doubled two years ago, and see the effect on wages. There is but one reality.
It is very unlike (for instance) in biomedicine, where you can separate rats into a test group and a control group. You cannot separate the global economy into a test economy and a control economy - because there's only one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
People complain that it takes months for them to find a job. But how are we supposed to say it must be unreasonable? We don't know the person. We have been asked to think that they deserve a shorter amount of job seeking time. But we really can't judge based on that. Sometimes, people overestimate themselves. Then they find scapegoats. H1bs are treated as scapegoats.
As are everyone else. You yourself have been bashing citizens as less talented. If you can bash citizens, I am allowed to bash H1B's.
Well...except that the major users of H1-B's are in fact mis categorized. IE "Software analyst" instead of "Software engineer"
Then "But look at company X!" OK great.....is company X one of the primary users of H1-B's? Then why didn't you point to one of them? Ohhh....because cherry picking data works better.
I disagree!!! H1-B workers are usually less paid than american citizens or green card holders. They are also being abused by Indian Companies who take advantage of their visa status.
After reading that article on Slate, I wouldn't be surprised that American tech workers are worried about H1-b's. In programming, it isn't just about getting from point A to point B. There are many different ways to code a program. If I was a manager, I would want someone who could write the most efficient code possible while doing it fast. Big projects are done in teams and a mediocre programmer would drag down everybody. Some people, like those who don't know a thing about programming, would think then just hire two mediocre programmers. It doesn't work that way. A lousy programmer could write a program, but what if that program takes 2x the time and processing power to run than what a superstar programmer could crank out?
After reading that article on Slate, I wouldn't be surprised that American tech workers are worried about H1-b's. In programming, it isn't just about getting from point A to point B. There are many different ways to code a program. If I was a manager, I would want someone who could write the most efficient code possible while doing it fast. Big projects are done in teams and a mediocre programmer would drag down everybody. Some people, like those who don't know a thing about programming, would think then just hire two mediocre programmers. It doesn't work that way. A lousy programmer could write a program, but what if that program takes 2x the time and processing power to run than what a superstar programmer could crank out?
And your point is? H1bs aren't any worse than americans.
There aren't enough americans who study stem fields. Take a look at the graduate students of engineering programs, and you will find lots, if not the majority of students, international students.
There are more supply of international students in stem than other fields. Immigrants know that this is the best way to get ahead for someone who doesn't come from this country and has little cultural background.
So naturally there are more international students who go to interviews. Thsoe who are good are then hired. And this is reflected in corporate leadership. In many companies, their leadership has become global as well.
Well...except that the major users of H1-B's are in fact mis categorized. IE "Software analyst" instead of "Software engineer"
Then "But look at company X!" OK great.....is company X one of the primary users of H1-B's? Then why didn't you point to one of them? Ohhh....because cherry picking data works better.
Of course, any system has abuses. But you shouldn't use one brush to paint all h1bs. This is basically scapegoating. Take a look at the anti indian rants on this board. If one doesn't have the ability to work with a global workforce, which happens to include many people from India in IT, then an argument can be made that this person lacks cultural competencies. If you show up at an interview and you are visibly resentful to the people there, what do you think would happen?
The bottom line is, and both political parties agree, that we need these people. Our own young don't study stem enough. The dropout rate is high. Graduate programs rely on international students to sustain enrollment. Upon graduation, many international students look for jobs in America. People have made the argument that we should give these stem advanced degree holders a green card, so that we don't lose these talents to our competitors. We want the best and the brightest to be concentrated in America, so that we will always lead innovation and change.
Lee kuan yew, singapores founding prime minister who passed away recently, said that you can be an engineer in Japan, in Germany,but you will never be considered Japanese or german. You can go to america and become an engineer. And you can also become an American citizen. The big picture is that we as a nation benefit from talent in this knowledge economy.
I can understand the concerns of workers who are displaced by competition. But I do not oppose competition. Workers care about their life, that's a small picture. As a society, we need to look at the big picture. It's not about saving one person's job. It's about laying the foundation to sustain technological innovation, which comes with jobs as a byproduct.
The nostalgia to how things worked 40 years ago is understandable, but hardly constructive. It's a diatribe on this board. We need to look forward. Workers ahve always adapted during periods of dramatic tech changes. This time isn't any different. Our economy has picked up too, much to the disappointment of those who wish more unemployement would create a left wing paradise. They just wish they can say to people:"see, now you figured out. The rich are the problem. The employers are the problem. Now do what we tell you to do, and you will get happiness."
In 2017, Hillary Clinton will become our first female president. But our system will remain the way it is. And TPP will go through.
besides what "point"? You mean besides the point you have in your head. Everything he said is correct. The bunk for ages has been how H1B are paid lower than their US qualified equivalents - you can find that argument many times right here ion this board. This actual-survey-not-anecdote disproves that point. Your point, whatever it may be you are arguing in your head about and with whom, is besides the point of this post.
Be careful. If someone says that H1B workers are a tool that companies use to pay less, this is not necessarily the same as saying that at any given time, the H1B workers are paid less than citizens. It could mean, by contrast, that the oversupply of labor simply drives wages down collectively.
And your point is? H1bs aren't any worse than americans.
There aren't enough americans who study stem fields. Take a look at the graduate students of engineering programs, and you will find lots, if not the majority of students, international students.
It simply does not follow. Perhaps there is an oversupply of students collectively, which include both American and immigrant students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
There are more supply of international students in stem than other fields. Immigrants know that this is the best way to get ahead for someone who doesn't come from this country and has little cultural background.
You are again lumping all immigrants together as a homogeneous group which is ironically enough actually an Americocentrist bias, because you are thinking of all of the world except America as if it were a homogeneous entity with a single type of people. If this were true, it would imply that you think America is somehow special or unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
So naturally there are more international students who go to interviews. Thsoe who are good are then hired. And this is reflected in corporate leadership. In many companies, their leadership has become global as well.
Ok, but you have to compare the distribution to what you would expect under the null hypothesis (i.e. there is no more or less talent in people from one part of the world compared to another.)
It simply does not follow. Perhaps there is an oversupply of students collectively, which include both American and immigrant students.
You are again lumping all immigrants together as a homogeneous group which is ironically enough actually an Americocentrist bias, because you are thinking of all of the world except America as if it were a homogeneous entity with a single type of people. If this were true, it would imply that you think America is somehow special or unique.
Ok, but you have to compare the distribution to what you would expect under the null hypothesis (i.e. there is no more or less talent in people from one part of the world compared to another.)
But when all of them become the same one big labor market, you cannot expect people from one group to be all there is. You're going to have competitive people from every group. What you're arguing for is to exclude other groups and prioritize American workers when our laws clearly say that we do not discriminate based on national origin
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
