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Things have changed. Most of those jobs they are touting are low wages, part time, no pension, and no benefits.
When you walked into IBM in 1959 you were hired as permanent full time with insurance, benefits and time off. And they accepted the fact you would need some training and time to get up to speed. Fast forward to today and we assume your job still exists. You walk into IBM but you don't really work for them. You are employed by a contract house supposedly hired temp to permanent. You may make an OK salary but you don't have anything else. IBM has figured out permanent technical employees are expensive to keep, for example engineers and programmers. Much easier to hire permatemps and let them go whenever the job is done. Today they will train no one. They expect their contract employees to walk in the door and be instantly productive.
Next let's expand on that productive thing. Today it's all about metrics and run by bean counters who know nothing about what you actually DO. They know how to count. And they count everything. It's completely possible to be rated excellent and accomplish nothing. You just need to understand the metrics. Work the system. It's also true some of the people who do the most will be rated below standards. In 1959, all you needed to know was where you stood with the boss. Today it's much more complex. And don't forget you are probably video and audio monitored constantly from the time you enter the parking lot.
Things have changed. There are very few career type jobs with a future out there. You knew for sure the day you walked in that door at IBM you had a job for life as long as you were willing to do your part. You did and they did. Employers do not treat their employees that well anymore. As far as they are concerned you are a disposable resource.
You knew for sure the day you walked in that door at IBM you had a job for life as long as you were willing to do your part.
And how many people today would commit to a "job for life" even if one was available? Those who grew up in the 1940's to take such a job in 1959 had been enculturated in conformity. Nobody is so today.
And how many people today would commit to a "job for life" even if one was available? Those who grew up in the 1940's to take such a job in 1959 had been enculturated in conformity. Nobody is so today.
I don't think human nature has changed that much. If you were valued, respected, well paid, and had all the perks, why put yourself through the misery of job hunting? Plus if you are working for a cool cutting edge company like IBM was back then, why move? And there were plenty or opportunities for advancement inside the company.
I was once offered a good job by one of my customers. I told him it would cost more than he was willing to pay.
Look back at the history of the jobhoppers over time. It all started with metrics and the dehumanization of the workers. Treat employees the way you would like to be treated and they will stay.
I think the OP is trolling and his scenario is made up.
I've actually seen first-hand people try and walk in with "moxie" and request an interview or inquire about openings. In the best case scenarios, they get politely told to go to the website or "we're not hiring but you can fill out an application and we'll keep it 'on file' [read: put in trash]" In the worst case scenarios, they get laughed out, which is what would happen if you tried to give flowers to the receptionist or buy a nice bottle of spirits for the VP.
To the extent that the Robber Baron Era was indeed prior to 1950.
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Originally Posted by GeoffD
You're saying the US wasn't politically stable in the 19th and the first half of the 20th century?
Read some history. It was highly unstable. From state and local rebellions to the Civil War to the age of anarchist bombings and worker massacres and on to the global death of capitalism that sent countries around the world careening to the left or right. FDR was only barely able to keep the US from becoming one of those. There is no "stability" in any of that.
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Originally Posted by GeoffD
The post-war high middle class wages for repetitive task jobs was an artifact of the rest of the first world being bombed to rubble and the US being 50% of the global economy.
In the real world, the US share of global GDP briefly rose to 35% in the mid-1940's, but normalcy returned quickly. Japan and Europe were soon rebuilt, but the good times in the US actually lasted until the Robbers returned right around 1980. There's where the problems came from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
If you can't compete with those smart people, you're going to be very disappointed with your compensation level.
Fortunately competing with all the people who only THINK they are smart is quite a bit easier.
Last edited by Major Barbara; 08-13-2015 at 07:13 PM..
I agree that the end of the temporary post-war boom of the 1950s and early 1960s was inevitable...
LOL! The 1950's were a cold, dark, gray and unsuccessful decade. There were three recessions. We were plagued by Jim Crow, a Red Scare, and a cloying subjugation to antiquated social mores. The Russkies beat us into space. We were relegated to the role of a fading second-rate power
Why is there record low unemployment? Answer: The numbers are RIGGED. Obama and his gang have been removing a lot of people from the count, as soon as they "stop looking for work"
First of all, we DO NOT currently have record-low unemployment, second of all, people who are not actively looking for work have NEVER been counted as unemployed, and third of all, the addition of survey questions to determine alternative measures of labor under-utilization was researched under Reagan and Bush-41 and ultimately implemented under Clinton.
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Originally Posted by BeerGeek40
Second, regarding student debt. This is no joke -- the cost of college has gone up tremendously over the past 20 years.
Education was once a bargain, but TEA Party clowns got states to fund tax cuts by pulling funding from higher education. You can pay the right-wing back at the polls.
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Originally Posted by BeerGeek40
And student debt stays with you, forever.
Not if you pay it off. Filing for bankruptcy is not an actual part of a viable financial plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40
Third, your generation never had to deal with jobs being sent overseas the way this generation does. These days if it can be done cheaper in India, it will be.
Same as it ever was. And by the way, jobs are not "sent" anywhere. Production occurs where the economics favor it. Long before you were born, textile work moved from New England to the southeast. Cheap labor. Whole communities were devastated by it. This all seems new to you only because you just got here.
The job I was hired to do in 2010 paid the same as it did in 2000 when other coworkers started, but with dramatically increased technical requirements. It pays the same today (I still work for the organization, though in a different department) and almost all of the recent hires have held master's degrees. There is a distinct difference in skill level and competency in that department between those who were hired before the recession and those who were hired after - and the more skilled, educated staff who were hired after overwhelmingly make less money. Rent for a one bedroom in the same time frame has increased by an average of $500 a month. Food is more expensive. Fuel for both cars and heating is more expensive.
In my case, the economy in which I entered college was not the world I graduated into. My college choices were all geared toward law school, and then 2008 happened and I had to readjust everything. Some friends continued on to law school afterwards (or were in their final year during the crash) and have fared even less well, and with a colossal amount of debt.
While most organizations haven't had stagnant wages for 15 years, salary increases across the board have generally not matched cost of living increases in the least.
At this point, the number of jobs isn't really a problem: it's the salary. I never expected to start out making 6 figures. However, I didn't expect starting salaries in the $30,000 range in one of the most expensive parts of the country either (and I moved back home to a cheaper COL area to find a job but it didn't stick - all my leads were in NYC, DC, or Boston where I ultimately landed).
Most of my friends and peers are frustrated by our stagnant wages more than anything. As a generation, we started out behind and it's so much more difficult to catch up with wages and retirement savings.
The job I was hired to do in 2010 paid the same as it did in 2000 when other coworkers started, but with dramatically increased technical requirements. It pays the same today (I still work for the organization, though in a different department) and almost all of the recent hires have held master's degrees. There is a distinct difference in skill level and competency in that department between those who were hired before the recession and those who were hired after - and the more skilled, educated staff who were hired after overwhelmingly make less money. Rent for a one bedroom in the same time frame has increased by an average of $500 a month. Food is more expensive. Fuel for both cars and heating is more expensive.
In my case, the economy in which I entered college was not the world I graduated into. My college choices were all geared toward law school, and then 2008 happened and I had to readjust everything. Some friends continued on to law school afterwards (or were in their final year during the crash) and have fared even less well, and with a colossal amount of debt.
While most organizations haven't had stagnant wages for 15 years, salary increases across the board have generally not matched cost of living increases in the least.
At this point, the number of jobs isn't really a problem: it's the salary. I never expected to start out making 6 figures. However, I didn't expect starting salaries in the $30,000 range in one of the most expensive parts of the country either (and I moved back home to a cheaper COL area to find a job but it didn't stick - all my leads were in NYC, DC, or Boston where I ultimately landed).
Most of my friends and peers are frustrated by our stagnant wages more than anything. As a generation, we started out behind and it's so much more difficult to catch up with wages and retirement savings.
In 1959 when I joined IBM I was offered only 12,500 a year. 30,000 is a fortune compared to that and could have afforded a wealthy lifestyle.
When I retired in 1999 I was making 250,000. The wage growth is there. You just have to stay adamant in your career.
In 1959 when I joined IBM I was offered only 12,500 a year. 30,000 is a fortune compared to that and could have afforded a wealthy lifestyle.
When I retired in 1999 I was making 250,000. The wage growth is there. You just have to stay adamant in your career.
$12,500 in 1959 is the equivalent of $101,562.28 today. I'm really not sure what your point is here - there's no comparison.
The $30,000 starting salary in 2000 is worth $41,855.97 today. But the starting salary is still $30,000.
EDIT: I should note that while I complain, that's only the tip of the iceberg for what I'm doing to change my situation. I did so well in that first job that I received greater responsibilities, made a name for myself in the organization, and received a promotion, all while facing stage IV cancer right out of college (which severely complicates things financially and career wise). During chemo, I taught myself web programming while bored in infusion or at home stuck in bed. Within 2 years out of my cancer diagnosis, I began a master's degree part time for free thanks to tuition remission, did public speaking that landed me a few paid gigs, and a role at the central level of my organization was created for me. I now consult with and create policy for over 100 social media managers in my organization. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to look for employment outside of my organization until recently because the risk of relapse was high enough to make going elsewhere and hoping I didn't relapse for the first year until FMLA kicked in too big of a risk.
Remove the cancer element of my story, and you have the average story of my peers. Sure, there are some Millennials who complain but do nothing to better their circumstances, but I don't happen to know any of them. I'm too busy surrounding myself with self-starters who are building their skillsets through formal and informal channels. That doesn't mean we're not going to complain - especially when you illustrate that some in the older generation don't seem to understand that complaining about their $12000 a year salary in 1960, 1975, or even 1985 is generally the equivalent of several tens of thousands of dollars more in today's money.
Last edited by charolastra00; 08-13-2015 at 08:00 PM..
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