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Old 11-17-2017, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,387,184 times
Reputation: 7010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Hmmm...Let me put it this way. Humans are risk adverse, and socialism reduces risk. BUT....capitalism is what supercharges our efforts. So I would argue that we need a little bit of socialism, along with our capitalism. Experiments with a basic income demonstrate then when the risk impact is lower, people will take more risks. For example-If I knew that failure wouldn't result in homelessness, and a drastically reduced lifespan as a result, I would be more willing to take risks on starting a business. But its capitalism that drives the desire to start the business. Too much of either is not optimal.

IE we do have choices other then total socialism, and total capitalism, and way too many folks base a argument on us being 100% one or the other. Its like picking whether you get food, or you get water.
I disagree with your premise that all humans are risk adverse. I'd say that a group (10%? 15%? 20%?) thrives on risk. There are people (including myself) who are inspired by living on the razor edge between high success and utter failure. BTW, I started my first business in my 20s and was broke and homeless for awhile, but I grew from the experience. Risk = growth. Risk can create a desperation and passion that leads to growth and innovation.

 
Old 11-17-2017, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,387,184 times
Reputation: 7010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
You surely can do most things on the private side. But some projects are done more easily via central planning, direction and funding. As shown by China.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/02/c...-in-100-years/
China is the world leader on cheaply copying U.S. products. Original design and innovation - not so much.
 
Old 11-17-2017, 09:26 PM
 
10,785 posts, read 5,702,611 times
Reputation: 10932
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
So apparently, you also have an issue with people of color. Just admit it.

Not sure why you don’t see her “hubby’s” observation/rant while in line at Wally World as anything more than tripe.
You couldn’t have got that from my post as I neither said nor suggested any such thing. My point was simply that there is a lot of welfare fraud going on. It goes on with people of all skin colors and immigration statuses.

Trying to find racism where it doesn’t exist isn’t productive. That kind of behavior should be beneath you.

Last edited by TaxPhd; 11-17-2017 at 10:18 PM..
 
Old 11-17-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,387,184 times
Reputation: 7010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Hubby took forever to check out of Walmart today. He buys his pet food there. When I told him I almost gave up on him he told me he was unlucky enough to get behind a Hispanic woman who had five WIC cards and used them all?? Could she be five different people or be pretending to be five different people. He assumed she was buying for herself and four other qualified people.

When I mentioned how we taxpayers are being ripped off and cheated into paying for illegals, he said it will not continue because we are coming to the point it is going to destroy our country. This keeps up and pretty soon there won't be a country.
How did he know she was "an illegal?" Did he check her ID?
 
Old 11-17-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: SoFlo
981 posts, read 901,563 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
All governments will be run by, and for the benefit of, the Rich. Nothing can ever change that.

To stay Rich, they must push the vast majority taxes on the Working Class (since the poor don’t have enough income to pay for a gigantic Big Government). They tell us they are going to “Make the Rich pay more taxes” and the idiot public cheers—not understanding that “the Rich” who will be paying more are Working Class stiffs in their peak earning years, who are trying to get their kids thru college and save for retirement.

The Ruling Class knows that it has to keep a good portion of the population from being angry enough to organize & revolt, and this is why we have these very generous welfare systems—again paid for by the Working Class.

Whenever you hear some filthy rich celebrity like Bill Gates preach that the Rich should pay more taxes, ask yourself: why he doesn’t just SEND some extra money to Washington? Instead, he & his rich cronies set up “charitable” organizations that also pay no taxes, but make them look so very generous. What a joke!

There is ONE answer to getting the best government possible—it is getting the SMALLEST government possible, and starving it of money by severely limiting the ways it can confiscate money. That was America, before the crooks managed to get an income tax on the Working Class.
yep you nailed it, and the ruling class keeps us peons divided, fighting with each other over "issues" to divert us while they continue to put their hand in our pocket, taking away our freedom with every pickpocket. the ruling class has their own interests at heart, and all this nonsense about political ideals and their party is just a charade. do not take this statement as a trump endorsement, but it became so obvious how much the political ruling class, both dem and republican are in bed together with the bushes and clintons doing support hugs during and after the election, and of course the takeout of bernie by the "DNC". the republicans have control of every branch yet cannot get ONE THING done to bring more economic freedom to people that work. their inability to overturn the ACA was that proof point with tax "reform" the icing on this poop cake. it was all they promised their constituents for almost 8 years, then had that lie exposed when pretty much all of them couldnt pull the trigger when it came down to it. now we still have millions of people that work and pay for healthcare they cant actually afford to use. and this tax "reform" is an absolute JOKE, with the people already paying the majority of the tax bill paying MORE. another scam just like obama telling me i could keep my doctor, this time courtesy of the republicans. the only thing that is good about it is at least they arent lecturing me that im not paying my fair share. they are all crooks.

Last edited by klaucka; 11-17-2017 at 10:25 PM..
 
Old 11-17-2017, 10:48 PM
 
Location: SoFlo
981 posts, read 901,563 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I don't see how the U.S. is getting closer to capitalism with Obamacare, etc.

What the world runs on is a mix of Cartel-ism (large companies that limit competition) and Socialism/Communism (government rules, laws, taxes, etc.). BOTH are enemies of freedom. BOTH work to centralize power and control in fewer and fewer hands.

The capitalism/socialism debate is the wrong debate. We don't have real capitalism with real competition. We have an oil/energy cartel, a banking cartel, a health care cartel, etc. People just don't seem to understand that a private market and a free and competitive market are two totally different things.
totally agree, and the vast increase in wealth among the poltical class reflects this as well. look at income growth rates and housing prices, i think DC tops both those lists. and im not singling out the clintons because there are plenty in this boat on both sides, but they built over $200M in wealth as POLITICIANS. i believe in some socialist principles but something is seriously wrong and corrupt when career "public servants" are one of the wealthiest classes. And the problem with America’s brand of socialism is that the taxpayer does not see that much in the way of social benefits, like everyone in the Scandanavian countries do. Of course most people like it because they ALL get benefits like guaranteed severance pay, reduced college costs, long leave times for vacation and family issues, and of course healthcare. In the US we get none of that, except for SS and Medicare which as a Gen X’er I expect to see none of after the Boomers break the bank and the Millenials take over.

Last edited by klaucka; 11-17-2017 at 10:58 PM..
 
Old 11-18-2017, 12:16 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,663 posts, read 25,652,230 times
Reputation: 24375
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
Ignorance is having an issue with someone's skin color, which you clearly do.

Yours is a typical uneducated rant from someone w/ little higher education, living rural south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Another ignorant post. Hispanics have many different skin colors. Yours is a rant of a person who has no clue who I am and assumption of many wrong things. I am probably more educated than you are and I certainly am less prejudiced than you. The more I read the posts outside the South the more I am convinced most southerners are a cut above the average American.

Last edited by NCN; 11-18-2017 at 12:47 AM..
 
Old 11-18-2017, 12:19 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,663 posts, read 25,652,230 times
Reputation: 24375
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
How did he know she was "an illegal?" Did he check her ID?
He didn't say she was illegal. You have a reading comprehension problem. He said she used five WIC cards and each card had to be checked out separately by ONE person? Don't they teach you to read in Chicago?

I am the one who had a job that let me know how illegals are robbing us. That is a separate paragraph.

Somebody needs to check her I. D. is my opinion. Why would one person have five WIC cards? My opinion is there is probably fraud involved. Stores don't care if fraud is happening as long as they get their money. I could be wrong. I have never owned a WIC card and have no idea how they work. It just seemed strange to me that one person would have five different WIC cards and have to check out groceries on each card separately. That is the point of the post.

Last edited by NCN; 11-18-2017 at 12:34 AM..
 
Old 11-18-2017, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,706,091 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Totally missed my point. Someone who leverages his education, contacts, or capital to create businesses that ultimately create jobs should not be punished. I mean, when a country such as Sweden has a corporate income tax rate at 22.5%, 17 points below that of the United States, you know things are completely out of whack.
If you actually do that, everything you spend on the business is tax free. If you play the tax credits right, the gummint will even pay you to grow your business. Capitalists like me produce nothing. We just lend our money out and collect the rewards of having money. It's a great scam, but there's no virtue in it.
 
Old 11-18-2017, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,706,091 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Boy are you ignorant! Illegals get assistance at more than 13 billion dollars a year. Problem is most people who are not in the know don't know how we are being cheated by companies, the government and the illegals. They work for low wages, get public housing, use fake I. D. to get public assistance. Companies get the benefits of paying low wages, taxpayers therefore picks up the rest of the bill of food stamps, housing and medical not to mention education. Our government is made up of a bunch of crooks that allow this to happen.

Remove your rose colored glasses and see the truth.
What you are describing is illegal. If you had any evidence it was true, you could do your citizen's duty and report it.
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