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Old 01-14-2018, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,597,479 times
Reputation: 4817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
When government creates supply shortages in housing.
The government didn't create a supply shortage of cheap housing in your neighborhood. The market did. In favor of more expensive housing.

Poor people have to live in poor neighborhoods. It's always been like this.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,597,479 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
A person earning $100K where the median income is $500K probably has zero opportunity to buy a home, while a person earning $20K where the median is $25K has good prospects.
So why don't you move to where the prospects are better?
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:20 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,469,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The government didn't create a supply shortage of cheap housing in your neighborhood. The market did. In favor of more expensive housing.

Poor people have to live in poor neighborhoods. It's always been like this.

Zoning effectively caps the supply of housing in every neighborhood, preventing the market from delivering more supply than the capped quantity.

So if market demand increases but the market cannot deliver more supply to meet demand, did the market create the supply shortage or did government create the supply shortage?

Prices went up precisely because supply was artificially capped by government - not by the market, which would have gladly built an adequate supply if it has been allowed to do so.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:25 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,469,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
So why don't you move to where the prospects are better?

I don't think my prospects are better anywhere.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,597,479 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Zoning effectively caps the supply of housing in every neighborhood, preventing the market from delivering more supply than the capped quantity.
Zoning isn't the issue, it's the fact that you live in a place with high-demand expensive RE, because there are people there ready and able to pay what it costs. It's how the market works.

When I lived in Redondo Beach in the late 80s, there were little houses selling for $500k. The developers would tear down the houses and build a dozen 3 story condos where the house stood. The condos were $350k each. That's the sort of thing that happens when zoning allows a greater density. No one is going to build cheap housing unless it's a cheap neighborhood. Ever.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,597,479 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I don't think my prospects are better anywhere.
Why? I hear even Walmart is paying $11/hr now and my local store is hiring. There are places all over the country that are affordable for someone making that level of pay.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:45 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,546,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
So if market demand increases but the market cannot deliver more supply to meet demand, did the market create the supply shortage or did government create the supply shortage?
you saying "market demand increases", which market is this? because homeless and poor people of the area are not the "market" when they can't afford to buy a house

you have to actually be part of the market to be part of the "market demand"

the "market" for poor people are in low col area, they refuse to go there, so why do they get to be part of the "luxury" market of high col housing?
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,597,479 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
you saying "market demand increases", which market is this?
freemkt apparently still doesn't understand "supply and demand". He thinks his "demand" for cheap housing in an expensive neighborhood would naturally be supplied if only the government would allow it.

If demand is high, then prices will naturally be high. Poor people have to live in places where demand is low.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:08 PM
 
2,806 posts, read 3,179,552 times
Reputation: 2708
Betting against astronomically high inequality is betting against every sample in history. Anytime there was a peaceful and prosperous time, predatory / crony capitalism developed that concentrated almost all wealth to a few families/dynasties. True for prehistoric tribal societies such as Native American or any empire - Rome, China, Aztec, Victorian England, Gilded Age etc. As the effects of WW2 abated, inequality inexorably rises again - we have seen nothing yet. Unless another mass-mobilization war occurs (extremely unlikely) wealth and income concentration will increase massively from where we are today. Top 1% may reach more than 60% of National Wealth and more. (They had 92% in Victorian England).
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:45 PM
 
8,869 posts, read 6,878,641 times
Reputation: 8689
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Zoning isn't the issue, it's the fact that you live in a place with high-demand expensive RE, because there are people there ready and able to pay what it costs. It's how the market works.

When I lived in Redondo Beach in the late 80s, there were little houses selling for $500k. The developers would tear down the houses and build a dozen 3 story condos where the house stood. The condos were $350k each. That's the sort of thing that happens when zoning allows a greater density. No one is going to build cheap housing unless it's a cheap neighborhood. Ever.
This is incorrect.

Zoning and other code requirements (square footage minimums, parking requirements) are a big driver for what gets built, and they specifically disallow many types that could help with affordability.

There's never a single solution to affordable housing, but one big component is micro units, which can be sized like smallish hotel rooms but aren't allowed in most cities. Likewise most of the less-urban cities and non-downtown neighborhoods (and sometimes even those) require massive amounts of parking, like every single unit has to come with a space and it's not even a choice. Basically the law usually says nothing can be built without being expensive, and the direct costs of all that square footage is only the start. Accessory units are another element that's basically banned in many places.
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