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The great proportion of the middle class job market is not being touched by immigration. American manufacturing employees have not been replaced by immigrants in American factories.
If we look at "offshoring" broadly, we can point to that as a culprit--every company that closed down a manufacturing plant in the US and is now having its product manufactured in China or somewhere else...there you go.
I had a factory manager tell me that he tried hiring American workers (mostly white) and they didn't show up, were on drugs, and basically ran his business into the ground. Then he replaced them all with Mexicans (here in the United States) and everything was fine.
I don't like to think that's the way we white Americans are but it seems to be increasingly the case. Maybe the smart white Americans all have office jobs, leaving the factory jobs to people who can't do them. Mexicans don't seem to have that problem.
With some exception, the vast majority of people I know who are truly doing badly are young (<35) divorcees. The men in this situation often get saddled with crushing alimony and child support. The women often have the kids and the majority of the expenses related to childcare. Generally, neither partner has a great income. They could survive with the expenses of just one household and combined incomes, but start having serious problems once the divorce occurs.
I don't know if I'd go that far that "30 is too old." My parents had me at 28. I'm 32, they're 61. Dad is in a physical job now is in the best shape he's been in for ten years. Mom has some health issues, but unless the bottom falls out, I don't see them needing substantial assistance before 70. That makes me 40.
If someone has kids at 40, their child will be 30 by the time they are 70. Still, 70 isn't what it used to be either, and people are generally living longer and healthier.
LOL yeah, that’s a joke! My dad had me at 40 and my sister at 43. He travels constantly, goes to more parties than anyone I know, still runs a large and successful business that has only picked up steam in the last 5 years, and he keeps physically active, working out every day. He’s 76!
Being 30 is more difficult today if you're not particular intelligent or creative. It's getting a lot harder to scrap together a living without advanced skills, many of which require an above-average IQ.
You know why life was simple for 30 something back then, its because life was simple. At 30 people were considered middle age or semi-middle age parents who had their life revolved around kids. Now at 30, we are still young, just a hair away from 20s. Still trying to live it up, still single and ready to mingle or married but no kids so ready to have fun. Between fun, work, family, and friends.. its exhausting.
I just came back from our first tent camp with my 20 something cousins. The next day, hubby and I, left early and spent all day recovering from lack of sleep & being outdoor and being bitten by mosquitos. While the 20 something cousins went bike riding, hiking and bounced right back. At 33, I am out and out of shape & I know life would be simpler if I just accepted the traditional life
Being 30 is more difficult today if you're not particular intelligent or creative. It's getting a lot harder to scrap together a living without advanced skills, many of which require an above-average IQ.
And if the average person had an above-average IQ, that wouldn't be an "above average" IQ.
So for the "average person"--who, btw, even in the Millennial generation doesn't have a college degree (and most of those who do have a college degree don't have a degree in STEM or any other rigorous field of study) being 30 today is more difficult than it was for us Boomers.
Being 30 is more difficult today if you're not particular intelligent or creative. It's getting a lot harder to scrap together a living without advanced skills, many of which require an above-average IQ.
I completely agree.
I think a number of things skew these discussions. I suspect some of the people who come in here and try to argue that its no harder for a young person to succeed these days fall within that category of "particularly intelligent or creative". I suspect this is probably about five to ten percent of young people. This group likes the current situation because it works for THEM. So, therefore, anyone who complains must be a whiner, a low achiever, lazy, or dumb. I think we've heard from a few of them on this thread.
However, even this is less clear to me today. I think because of the cost of higher education even some gifted people can fall through the cracks. Scholarships are more limited than most realize. Many only pay for tuition and do not pay for living expenses. Many have very rigid requirements that make them difficult to keep for more than a year or so. The hiring market is better now, but I suspect even gifted people had trouble finding decent entry level positions from 2008 through 2014.
I've already mentioned oldsters who I think are primarily in denial about just how much the economy and living conditions have changed in the last thirty to forty years.
Finally, the use of high technology has made it easier to eliminate jobs and dispense with employees altogether. No real answer exists for this problem. You can tell people they need to constantly be upgrading their job skills, but even this may eventually not be enough to stay employed at a living wage.
I think a number of things skew these discussions. I suspect some of the people who come in here and try to argue that its no harder for a young person to succeed these days fall within that category of "particularly intelligent or creative". I suspect this is probably about five to ten percent of young people. This group likes the current situation because it works for THEM. So, therefore, anyone who complains must be a whiner, a low achiever, lazy, or dumb. I think we've heard from a few of them on this thread.
Yes. I consider myself in that group, and I'll be okay when I retire next year (in fact, I'll have more disposable income than I have now).
But I recognize that I'm an outlier in that regard. There are other people in my own family who will be screwed, and they haven't actually done anything stupid. In many ways, it was merely a matter of my choices turning out better in ways that are only clear in hindsight.
So I didn't go into any field that looked hot 40 years ago but got shipped to China--Yay, me, but I don't pretend that I saw that coming 40 years ago.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
I completely agree.
I think a number of things skew these discussions. I suspect some of the people who come in here and try to argue that its no harder for a young person to succeed these days fall within that category of "particularly intelligent or creative". I suspect this is probably about five to ten percent of young people. This group likes the current situation because it works for THEM. So, therefore, anyone who complains must be a whiner, a low achiever, lazy, or dumb. I think we've heard from a few of them on this thread.
However, even this is less clear to me today. I think because of the cost of higher education even some gifted people can fall through the cracks. Scholarships are more limited than most realize. Many only pay for tuition and do not pay for living expenses. Many have very rigid requirements that make them difficult to keep for more than a year or so. The hiring market is better now, but I suspect even gifted people had trouble finding decent entry level positions from 2008 through 2014.
I've already mentioned oldsters who I think are primarily in denial about just how much the economy and living conditions have changed in the last thirty to forty years.
Finally, the use of high technology has made it easier to eliminate jobs and dispense with employees altogether. No real answer exists for this problem. You can tell people they need to constantly be upgrading their job skills, but even this may eventually not be enough to stay employed at a living wage.
You know you keep harping on oldsters in denial. I've asked you a few times what you have done yourself personally to help the younger generation since you feel you have benefited and basically screwed them over. So far you have never responded, just pointed fingers.
I,vet already stated I agree that things are different, but so are opportunities and strategies in life.
Hate to break it to you but technology has always affected jobs, not just today.
Since you stated you feel guilty about what you did in the past, you should also admit that despite your knowledge of your wrong doings that you your are not a very good person.
You haven't done anything to help personally, blaming others is not helping.
Those that make suggestions or cite examples that may encourage others having a harder time, you just dismiss them as being in denial
You ask for a dialogue, yet you shut it down unless it is only negative.
I don't understand your point.
You yourself won't do anything and if others make suggestions or cite examples of people succeeding you criticize them.
I had a factory manager tell me that he tried hiring American workers (mostly white) and they didn't show up, were on drugs, and basically ran his business into the ground. Then he replaced them all with Mexicans (here in the United States) and everything was fine.
I don't like to think that's the way we white Americans are but it seems to be increasingly the case. Maybe the smart white Americans all have office jobs, leaving the factory jobs to people who can't do them. Mexicans don't seem to have that problem.
Here in Appalachia, this is the way things are running.
Our local newspaper did a long-form article a couple of weeks ago about staffing difficulties at local manufacturers. These are mostly entry level jobs paying between $12-$15/hr in a low cost area.
They can't find locals who can pass a drug test and show up. There aren't that many Hispanics here. A nearby metro has more, and an ICE raid there made national news. While I'm not a fan of illegal immigration, the locals won't work, there is work to do, and the illegals will work. It's not all about raising wages in this case.
I had a factory manager tell me that he tried hiring American workers (mostly white) and they didn't show up, were on drugs, and basically ran his business into the ground. Then he replaced them all with Mexicans (here in the United States) and everything was fine.
I don't like to think that's the way we white Americans are but it seems to be increasingly the case. Maybe the smart white Americans all have office jobs, leaving the factory jobs to people who can't do them. Mexicans don't seem to have that problem.
Some of that is the character that we instilled in American youth about such jobs.
This is the consistent message we gave them: "If you end up in a job like that, you are a loser. There is no honor in that kind of job. Your life sucks. You might as well get high and die."
The money almost doesn't matter. Unless an individual has a certain rare spark, the propaganda he has been fed all his life that he's a loser will prevail and he will think and act like a loser, not seeing and making use of the chances he actually has.
The Mexicans coming here don't come with that mindset. That's not a "loser's job" to them, that is a job a man takes when he intends to win.
This reminds me of a guy I knew in my young Air Force days in the early 70s.
Most of us young guys griped about our lives, as young guys in the military usually do. But this guy was always upbeat.
He was a Cajun from a tiny bayou town in Louisiana. He told me that in his town, there was only one main company that employed most of the town's residents. There were two kinds of jobs a man could hold in that company: An "indoor job" or an "outdoor job."
If you had an indoor job, it meant you were one of the town's elite, sitting in an air conditioned office wearing a tie, going home fresh at the end of the day to enjoy your wife and children.
If you had an outdoor job, you were a stevedore working on the docks, "totin' that barge, liftin' that bale," all day long in the humid heat. When you went home, you collapsed on the couch, and that was your life: "Nasty, brutal, and short."
This guy came from an "outdoor job" family. That was the life of this guy's grandfather, his uncles, and his father. He had grown up expecting it to be his life, until he wound up in an Air Force recruiter's office in Baton Rouge.
He wound up a year later in Air Force intelligence, sitting in an air conditioned officer, wearing a tie, working on a computer. He was the first person in his family to have an "indoor job," and his life was fine with him.
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