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Old 12-16-2020, 04:05 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Just as the title say's can the US hit 50 trillion in debt by 2024 and still maintain our standard of living? still keep the dollar as the world currency.

I have a sinking feeling that a "great reset" will mean making every states debts, and pension shortfalls to disappear with the tap of a few keys.

This is not a right/left issue, I'm positive that both sides of the fetid swamp are salivating over the idea of this much money flowing out of DC, lots of opportunity to syphon off hundreds of million into there off shore accounts and campaign war chest.
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Old 12-16-2020, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
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Our standard of living has been dropping all my life. So the answer is it won't survive. and I think we are very close to becoming a third world culture.

When I was a kid a millionaire was rare now they are everywhere. The millionaire from the 50's has become the billionaire today.
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
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There will come a time when the entire global financial system will implode from the weight of the unsustainable debt- the question is when, not if. Covid has bought the "day of reckoning" substantially closer, and when the debt implodes, so does the value of all the paper assets, because they are propped up by the debt. Stocks, bonds, fiat currencies, and real estate will all become worth next to nothing as we witness the 'Mother of all Deflations.'
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:42 AM
 
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US GDP was $21 trillion in 2019. So our debt to income ratio is less than 3 with a $50 trillion numerator. That's less than the average mortgage.
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
US GDP was $21 trillion in 2019. So our debt to income ratio is less than 3 with a $50 trillion numerator. That's less than the average mortgage.
-The total US debt (public and private) is upwards of $82T- and that's not including the $156T of unfunded liabilities the US has.

-The 30 year mortgage is an absurd premise to begin with and would never exist in a free market.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
US GDP was $21 trillion in 2019. So our debt to income ratio is less than 3 with a $50 trillion numerator. That's less than the average mortgage.
That seem rather basic, but how will the government service that debt, we already run huge deficits already? With a doubled national debt wont the deficits also basically double. And what will this do to inflation? The last stimulus has already brought out a good 10 to 20% increase in prices for Lot of items.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:49 AM
 
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30 years ago we were saying the national debt was out of hand and the end was coming. Fast forward to today and we are still going. Go figure,
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Old 12-16-2020, 09:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
Just as the title say's can the US hit 50 trillion in debt by 2024 and still maintain our standard of living? still keep the dollar as the world currency.
  • The US debt is not going to hit $50T in 2024. It's at $26T in 2020 and that's with pandemic shutdowns. With economic recovery the debt will probably grow $1T or $2T per year, so it'll be more like $32T in 2024.
  • Yes, we can maintain our standard of living with ~$30T in debt. Our mediocre middle class standard of living isn't caused by debt, it's mostly due to wages not keeping up with productivity.
  • There is no currency anywhere that can replace the US dollar. The sun has set on the Euro, so that's not going to be it. It won't be the Yuan/Renminbi, the Chinese don't have transparent institutions so you can't trust what the central banks say.
  • Japan has a 200% debt-to-GDP ratio and they haven't collapsed. They have good transparency and are trustworthy. We have room to take on more debt if we have to.
  • The 10 year yield on US Treasuries is 0.9%. The yield is so low because of strong investor demand at auction. If the U.S. was issuing too much debt the first sign would be rising rates due to weak demand at auction, if investors either don't trust bonds or they don't have the capacity to buy them all. We are nowhere near that situation now.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
  • The US debt is not going to hit $50T in 2024. It's at $26T in 2020 and that's with pandemic shutdowns. With economic recovery the debt will probably grow $1T or $2T per year, so it'll be more like $32T in 2024.
  • Yes, we can maintain our standard of living with ~$30T in debt. Our mediocre middle class standard of living isn't caused by debt, it's mostly due to wages not keeping up with productivity.
  • There is no currency anywhere that can replace the US dollar. The sun has set on the Euro, so that's not going to be it. It won't be the Yuan/Renminbi, the Chinese don't have transparent institutions so you can't trust what the central banks say.
  • Japan has a 200% debt-to-GDP ratio and they haven't collapsed. They have good transparency and are trustworthy. We have room to take on more debt if we have to.
  • The 10 year yield on US Treasuries is 0.9%. The yield is so low because of strong investor demand at auction. If the U.S. was issuing too much debt the first sign would be rising rates due to weak demand at auction, if investors either don't trust bonds or they don't have the capacity to buy them all. We are nowhere near that situation now.
I don't think there is any major debt number that will be the tipping point. And I doubt that the tipping point will be sharp and within my life time. But given the trajectory, it will happen: the US dollar will stop being the reserve currency for the world. I doubt that it will get replaced by any single currency (e.g., Chinese RMB, or the Euro) but more likely a basket of currencies or else something new.

Here are some things to ponder, if you think the US dollar will continue to reign supreme forever given the trajectory that the US economy is on.

1. China is the largest trading partner in Africa. Over 70,000 Chinese companies use the RMB in cross-border trade and African nations accept Chinese economic assistance (and debt). While the US is concerned about everyone becoming "democratic", Chinese companies build infrastructure and access natural resources from Africa.

2. India uses gold to buy oil from Iran. China uses RMB to buy Iranian oil.

3. Saudi Arabia is on board with China's "belt-and-road" system of economic development, and sells oil for RMB.

4. The United Nations and International Monetary Fund are pushing for a new reserve currency that is not the US dollar. It will likely be called the "Bancor" and will be controlled by a global central bank.

5. Five BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) have discussed trading with each other using their own currencies, rather than the US dollar.

And when the US dollar no longer becomes the world's reserve currency, watch out.

https://www.forexlive.com/Education/...rency-20200731
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Maine
3,536 posts, read 2,859,637 times
Reputation: 6839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
  • The US debt is not going to hit $50T in 2024. It's at $26T in 2020 and that's with pandemic shutdowns. With economic recovery the debt will probably grow $1T or $2T per year, so it'll be more like $32T in 2024.
  • Yes, we can maintain our standard of living with ~$30T in debt. Our mediocre middle class standard of living isn't caused by debt, it's mostly due to wages not keeping up with productivity.
  • There is no currency anywhere that can replace the US dollar. The sun has set on the Euro, so that's not going to be it. It won't be the Yuan/Renminbi, the Chinese don't have transparent institutions so you can't trust what the central banks say.
  • Japan has a 200% debt-to-GDP ratio and they haven't collapsed. They have good transparency and are trustworthy. We have room to take on more debt if we have to.
  • The 10 year yield on US Treasuries is 0.9%. The yield is so low because of strong investor demand at auction. If the U.S. was issuing too much debt the first sign would be rising rates due to weak demand at auction, if investors either don't trust bonds or they don't have the capacity to buy them all. We are nowhere near that situation now.
There talking about 1 to 6 trillion in stimulus money within the next 6 months, that's not coming out of tax revenue, that is going right on the debt. And by next year even states with good budgets are going to be in a self made world of hurt with these shutdowns.
There will never be a better time for fiscally mismanaged states to erase there problems, and the next administration seems more than willing to embrace a "reset".
Lol i would not be surprised to see us hit 30 trillion by mid 2021.
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