Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Things have just not been adding up with what the government has been doing over the past several months... I understand the problem... we live in a debt society instead of saving, we grew our debt to pay for a more upscale lifestyle... first we blew through our savings and gave it to the other countries in return for "service" and junk... second we took on credit cards but didn't pay them off in full each month... third we took out personal loans via HELOCs and whatnot, thinking we will repay it "somehow".... and then you find families in huge debt and rising costs... so the ROOT of the problem has always been how Americans handled their debt... most got too much and no savings... if they lose what their debt bought them, then they have ZERO wealth... they are scared, they don't want to lose their homes, their cars, their LCD TVs... so now that they are completely tapped out, and their debt to income ratio is sky high... what does Paulson do? He injects money into banks to make them LEND more... lend to who? The person we just mentioned? He can't afford any more loans... as is MOST Americans nowadays... they are all tapped out... most of the people that are asking for loans are the truly desparate where they owe 200% of their paycheck to their debts already... you want to loan them money? Are you kidding me? Am I missing something? Who exactly is Paulson asking banks to lend to? Last time I check your DTI should be 30% or less... that means virtually everybody (creditworthy that is) should NOT be applying for a loan... and those that are not creditworthy should not be given a loan... so that means pretty much NOBODY should be getting loans... What is Paulson thinking? Is he hoping to drive a car running on gas fumes just a few more miles instead of refueling? What an idiot.... and then we have his pal Bernanke, another idiot... there is a serious problem when you trust two idiots to manage the economy...
No, you're not missing anything. They (Fed/Treasury) have no other alternative.
We are a consumer based economy..we have to BUY to keep the big engine running.
But over the past years people had faux wealth..it wasn't real. It wasn't earned through higher pay and more savings. It was through "credit" aka debt. Bubbles all over gave the illusion that people were wealthier than they really were. Now the bubbles have popped. If people really had savings and didn't depend on their "credit" we probably wouldn't be in such bad shape..maybe a bad recession I'd venture.
But this time, I think, we're in real trouble. I just don't see how trying to reinflate those bubbles will fix our problems. I think they should just let everything deflate to the norm, pick up the pieces and we start all over again. Yes it will be hard, but if they took all that bailout money and used it to help "main street" during these times and let the banksters fall flat on their face we might have weathered it better. As it is, the banksters got all the money and now there's very little left to help main street.
Bernanke and Paulson uttered many times the word "credit", which is a ruling class euphemism for debt ... as in debt slaves.
How many times did you hear them pronounce the words production, saving, productivity, manufacturing?
The DJIA dropped nearly 700 points, I realize there was bad economic news during the day, but I think what those two uttered and did not pronounce contributed.
I have the impression that their objective is the ask the Chinese, Arabs et al lend the US "consumer" another $2 trillion to continue shopping.
What do you think are the chances, now with oil even below $50 per barrel, that the average US consumer will have the discipline to focus on production, saving - giving up consumption today for the sake of a better long-term future - productivity, in everything that actually requires gritty hard work to be done, from making shoes and socks to alternative energy?
In other words, the US ruling class has sold out, they want the Chinese, Arabs et al to lengthen, then tighten, the noose around the average person's neck.
Often it is one's own who sells one's own into slavery, it is the one closest to you who betrays you.
And the American people voted in more of the same.
Americans are tapped out. I haven't taken any new credit in two years. My truck is paid off. Almost all my credit cards are paid off. And I'm putting whatever money I have in savings and remodeling my house. I'm not doing it to build wealth, but because I enjoy it and it needs it. Most consumers can't take any more debt. So, you aren't missing anything.
If people really had savings and didn't depend on their "credit" we probably wouldn't be in such bad shape...
As it is, the banksters got all the money and now there's very little left to help main street.
WOW, are you ever right! Righter than you think! It's WORSE than we all think! Not only are we indebted up to our eyeballs, but all the money Americans earned for many years, by the sweat of their brows, is LOST, gone. All paid in interest to the banksters who lent, and encouraged borrowing.
Truth is, most of the folks who have huge debts (esp credit cards) have already long ago paid for everything they bought. Now they are just paying interest to these greedy sharks. But if you can't pay the interest, and compound interest, the sharks will come along and repossess all your 'stuff' - cars, TVs, whatever.
Hey - how come we're sitting at our computers, writing about all this with such equanimity? How come we're not out marching in the streets??? Oh, I get it - we brought all this upon ourselves!
Hey - how come we're sitting at our computers, writing about all this with such equanimity? How come we're not out marching in the streets???
I'm off today. And for marching in the streets..well I've been called "doomer" and told that I am way off base with my opinions and suggestions.
Warned my family and some close friends last year to get out of the market..some listened and some didn't. I'm done listening to their sob stories of "money's tight with the 2 mortgages and car loan and all".
I woke up to the "credit is good" propaganda about 3 years ago. I'm not gloating about it though..I keep to myself and am doing my preps cause I think it's going to get a lot worse than what we see today.
I'm off today. And for marching in the streets..well I've been called "doomer" and told that I am way off base with my opinions and suggestions.
Warned my family and some close friends last year to get out of the market..some listened and some didn't. I'm done listening to their sob stories of "money's tight with the 2 mortgages and car loan and all".
I woke up to the "credit is good" propaganda about 3 years ago. I'm not gloating about it though..I keep to myself and am doing my preps cause I think it's going to get a lot worse than what we see today.
I hear ya, Texan.
Speaking of preps, we are into preparedness also. Some folks call it 'survivalism' but that conjures up visions of tinfoil hat stuff. Common-sense preparedness is what we do. I had read that in some of your posts before, and wanted to comment, but never did.
I wish CD would start a forum for the prep-minded. The more other folks who catch on, the fewer we have to worry about trying to break into our homes when the balloon goes up!
Speaking of preps, we are into preparedness also. Some folks call it 'survivalism' but that conjures up visions of tinfoil hat stuff. Common-sense preparedness is what we do. I had read that in some of your posts before, and wanted to comment, but never did.
I wish CD would start a forum for the prep-minded. The more other folks who catch on, the fewer we have to worry about trying to break into our homes when the balloon goes up!
Do you think they'd start one? That'd be great--it would be a great way to get people involved in the preparedness movement; if not for those "imaginary" events that'll never happen, then even for hurricanes, power outages, etc.
Preparedness is a hobby today, a life saver tomorrow. Our plans and experiments have taught us a lot and given us a sense of peace. We're prepared as best we can be, including an invitation from a friend to live on his land well out of the city. We make sure we have unexpired gas and a firearm on hand to get there.... :-J
Things have just not been adding up with what the government has been doing over the past several months... I understand the problem... we live in a debt society instead of saving, we grew our debt to pay for a more upscale lifestyle... first we blew through our savings and gave it to the other countries in return for "service" and junk... second we took on credit cards but didn't pay them off in full each month... third we took out personal loans via HELOCs and whatnot, thinking we will repay it "somehow".... and then you find families in huge debt and rising costs... so the ROOT of the problem has always been how Americans handled their debt... most got too much and no savings... if they lose what their debt bought them, then they have ZERO wealth... they are scared, they don't want to lose their homes, their cars, their LCD TVs... so now that they are completely tapped out, and their debt to income ratio is sky high... what does Paulson do? He injects money into banks to make them LEND more... lend to who? The person we just mentioned? He can't afford any more loans... as is MOST Americans nowadays... they are all tapped out... most of the people that are asking for loans are the truly desparate where they owe 200% of their paycheck to their debts already... you want to loan them money? Are you kidding me? Am I missing something? Who exactly is Paulson asking banks to lend to? Last time I check your DTI should be 30% or less... that means virtually everybody (creditworthy that is) should NOT be applying for a loan... and those that are not creditworthy should not be given a loan... so that means pretty much NOBODY should be getting loans... What is Paulson thinking? Is he hoping to drive a car running on gas fumes just a few more miles instead of refueling? What an idiot.... and then we have his pal Bernanke, another idiot... there is a serious problem when you trust two idiots to manage the economy...
Hi evilnewbie,
Its built in. In our system, we increase debt or default. There is no means of having net equity when all money is created at a debt. The only way to pay off loans is to go into more debt collectively or collectively default. The money supply is loaned at principle and principle + debt is owed. All this whining about debt is really quite silly since all money is debt. Until one understands, this it all appears as a funny house of mirrors lights and acrobats. When you save a $1, its is only because some other poor sap had to go into debt at interest. Net savings must = $0. You are getting a whiff of what's really going on.
Banks reap the inflationary tax until a depression cycle arises. Small banks that compete with the big banks are killed off while the big banks use their Fed fire guard until they may feast again. The result will be a wasteland around big finance just as they designed. They may then proceed to pluck the finest grapes of the land at a pittance to grace their plates of heaping avarice. They think to themselves, let those who prostitue their daughters to us eat the pomace but none for the rest.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
