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Simple... Gov prints more money ! Just like they are doing now for everyone that is doing it today. And tomorrow they will do the same. It's impossible to force someone to make a payment on anything, especially when they don't have it.
The IRS is a business like any other. They will not waist dollars collecting something that is going to cost them more in the long run then what will probably be recovered. Most people with big Fed liens after 3 years (you can not discharge a fed lien for at least 3 years) file a chapter and do away with it anyway and the IRS knows it.
And how they deal with you all depends on how your income is structured too. If you are a W2 employee/slave then yes they may have your wages garnished depending on what your income is. If you are a self employed person and control your income through a properly structured business, they will file a personal lien and whack any bank account you personally use and that is about it. Those with this kind of low income just let the lien sit for 10 years and forget about it or discharge it after 3 years.
If they lien a bank account... (chances are you won't be using it anyway) simply open another one. They do not have the man power to track the movements of every person that owes them money. It simply costs them too much to do.
The IRS is not as scary as everyone thinks they are especially if you understand how the system works. If you don't then they become a product of the rumors floating around to one. What is reallyscary to me is how many people don't understand how the gov functions ! People imprison themselves over the gov and the rumors about it.
Most common myth debunked... they do not put you in jail for owing them money as everyone seems to think they do. It is not a crime to owe anyone money and never ever has been !
Have a short talk with a reputable Tax Attorney some time... You will see things in a whole new light !
I pay my bills so I hope to Not need a Tax Attorney now or in the future.
You did provide some interesting information. Thank you!
The one thing you don't talk about is how transit America is. The average American moves something like every 5 years. Few people these days look at a home as a final investment. Many folks put more priority in their auto purchase , than a house. Right or wrong , doesn't matter that much , its the way things are , we are a mobile society. Being upside down in a home is a new thing for a lot of people. Something DOES need to be done. Stealing as you put it , is not quite what is going on for most unfortunate folks. Yes , the speculators , are a different story , but , I still would not put most of them in the same category as Bernie Madoff.
Believe me, I know more than anyone how transient of a society we are. I've moved 13 times in the past 10 years. Somehow, I've still managed to buy three houses in three different cities--sold one, renting one, and live in one now. The general rule about buying a house always has been that if you plan on holding on to it for at least 5 years, then it's better to buy than rent. The problem is that in the past few years, many people ignored that advice and even though they knew they would probably only own it for 1-3 years, they still bought because they wanted to make money. I knew I wasn't going to be in my first two houses for 5 years but I still bought. I also knew that I could hold on to the houses for a long time, if needed, though. They were both lifestyle and investment decisions. I knew that house values could decrease so I told myself that I would not sell for at least 10 years.
And no, I wouldn't put a majority of people in the same category as Bernie Madoff. I think it's one thing if people default on loans because they absolutely cannot afford to pay the mortgage--feeding your kids should be your #1 priority. It's another when someone just walks away because they want to dump a bad investment. I know someone who moved here from India 15 years ago. A few years back he bought a property that was $400k-$500k with 0% or very little down. He absolutely had no right to buy that property because he certainly wasn't making enough to buy it. But he wanted to be in the real estate game. He did a stated income loan and lied about how much he made so he could get the loan. As of a year ago, the house had lost probably $50k in value. He decided to move back to India and let them foreclose on him. He didn't care because having a foreclosure on his U.S. credit report won't hurt him in another country. To me, that is stealing.
You are right that is stealing and people who walk away while they can afford it...is stealing too.
People who signed the papers and try to put money away so they can claim they don't have enough after taken the equity out, is stealing and the same counts for the people who are just getting a divorce to avoid paying their mortgage...we see it all here in this Tampa area....there are more lyers than honest people, right now and it seems that the media is helping them by giving advise how to get away with not paying!
Believe me, I know more than anyone how transient of a society we are. I've moved 13 times in the past 10 years. Somehow, I've still managed to buy three houses in three different cities--sold one, renting one, and live in one now. The general rule about buying a house always has been that if you plan on holding on to it for at least 5 years, then it's better to buy than rent. The problem is that in the past few years, many people ignored that advice and even though they knew they would probably only own it for 1-3 years, they still bought because they wanted to make money. I knew I wasn't going to be in my first two houses for 5 years but I still bought. I also knew that I could hold on to the houses for a long time, if needed, though. They were both lifestyle and investment decisions. I knew that house values could decrease so I told myself that I would not sell for at least 10 years.
And no, I wouldn't put a majority of people in the same category as Bernie Madoff. I think it's one thing if people default on loans because they absolutely cannot afford to pay the mortgage--feeding your kids should be your #1 priority. It's another when someone just walks away because they want to dump a bad investment. I know someone who moved here from India 15 years ago. A few years back he bought a property that was $400k-$500k with 0% or very little down. He absolutely had no right to buy that property because he certainly wasn't making enough to buy it. But he wanted to be in the real estate game. He did a stated income loan and lied about how much he made so he could get the loan. As of a year ago, the house had lost probably $50k in value. He decided to move back to India and let them foreclose on him. He didn't care because having a foreclosure on his U.S. credit report won't hurt him in another country. To me, that is stealing.
Yes! That is stealing and those people should be held accountable as well as anyone who committed fraud. My point is that I am sick of the ones that do things right bailing out those that don't.It will only change when we refuse to do it anymore.Until they start prosecuting and locking up those that willingly committed fraud,I don't see protesting with your checkbook as a bad idea.Maybe I've taken it to the extreme,but I simply refuse to give any company that received bailout money anymore of mine.
I lived without using credit for a very long time before and I have no problem doing it again.My FICO score does not make me who I am.I am standing up for myself and if that means I won't be able to buy what I cannot afford,well that's just fine by me.
Believe me, I know more than anyone how transient of a society we are. I've moved 13 times in the past 10 years. Somehow, I've still managed to buy three houses in three different cities--sold one, renting one, and live in one now. The general rule about buying a house always has been that if you plan on holding on to it for at least 5 years, then it's better to buy than rent. The problem is that in the past few years, many people ignored that advice and even though they knew they would probably only own it for 1-3 years, they still bought because they wanted to make money. I knew I wasn't going to be in my first two houses for 5 years but I still bought. I also knew that I could hold on to the houses for a long time, if needed, though. They were both lifestyle and investment decisions. I knew that house values could decrease so I told myself that I would not sell for at least 10 years.
And no, I wouldn't put a majority of people in the same category as Bernie Madoff. I think it's one thing if people default on loans because they absolutely cannot afford to pay the mortgage--feeding your kids should be your #1 priority. It's another when someone just walks away because they want to dump a bad investment. I know someone who moved here from India 15 years ago. A few years back he bought a property that was $400k-$500k with 0% or very little down. He absolutely had no right to buy that property because he certainly wasn't making enough to buy it. But he wanted to be in the real estate game. He did a stated income loan and lied about how much he made so he could get the loan. As of a year ago, the house had lost probably $50k in value. He decided to move back to India and let them foreclose on him. He didn't care because having a foreclosure on his U.S. credit report won't hurt him in another country. To me, that is stealing.
From what I see here , the complaint is , " stealing" applies when there is fraud involved. I think I can agree with that. You were much more broad based before however.
The problem comes in where a person has all good intentions , but , due to unforeseen conditions , the rug is pulled from under them , and , they have no where to go. I have personal experience with this , I know how it feels , and I know the options. In my case , I decided to restructure , by selling assets, outside of BK. , and we are talking big numbers here , not 100,000 stuff. ( which seems like a norm for CC debt these days ). My point is , that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Separating out the bad guys , the fraud , and those who got buried by events unforeseen , can be a gray area.
On top of all that , someone needs to lead by example. Not everyone out there is as savvy as some of us are . Loose lending is driven by greed , until the crooked bankers and mortgage brokers are rounded up and punished , we will still have those taking advantage of others. We need to return to enforceable usury laws , oversight , and a more level playing field.
When our Government comes out and tells everyone , " go out and spend , use that credit card " , while at the same time passes more favorable laws and rules for the CC companies , well , what do you think will be the outcome ? ( I cut up all my cards, I pay cash , not what those people like to see ).
Our entire Financial system needs restructuring , from the federal debt , on down. I see a massive inflation in our future , and , that will spark another round of credit buying with out the means to pay . ( Buy it today , cause , tomorrow , it will cost more scenario ). Stay tuned , its coming....
The problem is, stealing and fraud no longer have a stigma in America. There is no shame to foreclosure, bankruptcy, welshing on a debt or not honoring a contract. In fact, many consider these to be smart moves. People rationalize their behavior as "good business," "savvy money management," "playing the game," "protecting my family" and "doing what's best for me."
It's a paradigm shift in America, with people who value ethics, integrity and accountability increasingly outbalanced by those who do not. Soon, people will stop teaching their children to "do the right thing," because doing so handicaps them. This will shift the paradigm again, because a Ponzi scheme is a sucker's game, relying on bigger suckers bankrolling those already in. When there are no new suckers willing to subsidize the rest, the whole thing will collapse. Few societies are destroyed by outsiders; it's the insiders that do them in.
From what I see here , the complaint is , " stealing" applies when there is fraud involved. I think I can agree with that. You were much more broad based before however.
The problem comes in where a person has all good intentions , but , due to unforeseen conditions , the rug is pulled from under them , and , they have no where to go. I have personal experience with this , I know how it feels , and I know the options. In my case , I decided to restructure , by selling assets, outside of BK. , and we are talking big numbers here , not 100,000 stuff. ( which seems like a norm for CC debt these days ). My point is , that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Separating out the bad guys , the fraud , and those who got buried by events unforeseen , can be a gray area.
On top of all that , someone needs to lead by example. Not everyone out there is as savvy as some of us are . Loose lending is driven by greed , until the crooked bankers and mortgage brokers are rounded up and punished , we will still have those taking advantage of others. We need to return to enforceable usury laws , oversight , and a more level playing field.
When our Government comes out and tells everyone , " go out and spend , use that credit card " , while at the same time passes more favorable laws and rules for the CC companies , well , what do you think will be the outcome ? ( I cut up all my cards, I pay cash , not what those people like to see ). Our entire Financial system needs restructuring , from the federal debt , on down. I see a massive inflation in our future , and , that will spark another round of credit buying with out the means to pay . ( Buy it today , cause , tomorrow , it will cost more scenario ). Stay tuned , its coming....
When did the Federal governement ever stated that you have to spend more than you can afford? Is saying that you can use your credit card not also stating that you should use it up to what you can afford....
Basically you are stating the same as people who blame McDonalds for getting fat while they eat all the time fast food....
Take responsibility and blame your self not the government for having spend to much money...if it was not true what I'm saying why am I not upside down and neither are the majority of the people in this country...it is a small group that is responsible and who brought values down by overspending...I'm not blaming only you (and you tried your best to get out of financial trouble and that is a very good thing ), but every one who spend what they couldn't afford, while not being scammed but just signed a mortgage that they never could afford....I'm a foreigner and English isn't my native language but I did understand that an ARM isn't smart unless you know upfront you can sell the proeprty before the ARM resets...nothing guaranteed so ARM's aren't smart and buying too much neither!
When did the Federal governement ever stated that you have to spend more than you can afford? Is saying that you can use your credit card not also stating that you should use it up to what you can afford....
Basically you are stating the same as people who blame McDonalds for getting fat while they eat all the time fast food....
Take responsibility and blame your self not the government for having spend to much money...if it was not true what I'm saying why am I not upside down and neither are the majority of the people in this country...it is a small group that is responsible and who brought values down by overspending...I'm not blaming only you (and you tried your best to get out of financial trouble and that is a very good thing ), but every one who spend what they couldn't afford, while not being scammed but just signed a mortgage that they never could afford....I'm a foreigner and English isn't my native language but I did understand that an ARM isn't smart unless you know upfront you can sell the proeprty before the ARM resets...nothing guaranteed so ARM's aren't smart and buying too much neither!
Sorry to inform you , but , credit is always a gamble. Only a fool thinks he can predict the markets , the economy , and the trends. The days of using credit as a convenience are over. Our Government wants you to spend ! , to buy on credit , to run up those credit cards. Our economy is driven by credit , without it , the system will collapse. There is little equity behind the system , Government on down.. Until we return to the Gold Standard , it will never change. ( The buy encouragement was made last year by our President ,and others ,look it up ) . The system is broken.
I agree the system is bad and I don't understand the credit score thing, although I have a high credit score. IMO it should be based on: pay your bills on time, not having much debt, pay rent or mortgages on time, etc.
That is how you get good credit in Europe and there isn't a score related to it, not that customers are aware off, but when you need a mortgage or a credit card they go by the money you have, your payment history and job history....you don't get awarded for the debt you have...just for paying it off on time!
Still I don't believe that any one in the government ever ment to say that you have to pay with a credit card if you can't afford it...and when the govenrment wanted the American dream for most people of owning their own home, they never stated it had to be a home you can't afford...what is wrong with owning a $ 100 K home or a $ 60 K home if you can afford it...most people heard the sentence "everybody should own a home" and in their minds it was every one needs to own a $ 300 K or more expensive home.... that is where things went wrong
Also when people look at the car that the neighbors drive and they go out and buy a similar one they can't afford, etc...
Sorry to inform you , but , credit is always a gamble. Only a fool thinks he can predict the markets , the economy , and the trends. The days of using credit as a convenience are over. Our Government wants you to spend ! , to buy on credit , to run up those credit cards. Our economy is driven by credit , without it , the system will collapse. There is little equity behind the system , Government on down.. Until we return to the Gold Standard , it will never change. ( The buy encouragement was made last year by our President ,and others ,look it up ) . The system is broken.
Absolutely ! The system is dependent on credit, debt and the transfer of from one to another. That is one way the gov makes money. Nothing being transfered, nothing to tax ! Any way they can get one to spend more is a good thing for them. If that means creating a bubble somewhere, so be it.
There is no backing to any of the paper we exchange, only a perceived value of who is printing it. Of course the gov wants you to spend. It is the only way they add to their balance sheet and create the illusion of value within the gov ! The more money they have to collect on their balance sheet the more they are perceived as being worth to those holding US dollar notes. It's a giant monopoly game...
The gov is bailing everything out for their own good not yours and mine.
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), but every one who spend what they couldn't afford, while not being scammed but just signed a mortgage that they never could afford....I'm a foreigner and English isn't my native language but I did understand that an ARM isn't smart unless you know upfront you can sell the proeprty before the ARM resets...nothing guaranteed so ARM's aren't smart and buying too much neither!
