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I'm not a bleeding heart. That's the way I am. I worked with multi-handicapped young adults for 6 years and they consumed my life, so say what you want, I don't really care.
I disagree about those who are severely handicapped working harder. They take up space in school and I won't apologize for that opinion. There is no work involved in their every day life in school. They are simply there. They are put into classrooms with normal kids then make noises and generally distract from the class attention to what is being taught. That may sound harsh, but it's true. Some just don't belong in mainstream classrooms.
They age out but don't really graduate.
Frankly, unless you actually have a special needs student, you have NO idea how hard they may have to work, just to be in the school situation. You have no idea how hard their parents have worked to help them attempt these classes.
While some of these kids make noises, that may have to do with their inability to control their mouths, speech and other things. Here's just ONE story. Believe me Jeremy earned his diploma.
Our local high school had graduation ceremonies two weeks ago and my daughter and I were talking about the class and the value, or lack thereof, of a diploma.
In the class was a number of kids who went through school unable to communicate or learn academics at all, severely handicapped.
In the class was a number of kids who were moved through school in a special program because they were not capable of sitting in a normal classroom or participating in normal academic activities. Instead, they milled around and focused on behavior (Meaning THEY did pretty much what they wanted and the staff hired to watch them focused on the behavior.). That particular program starts in elementary school and carries through high school, which in itself is a puzzle (Those kids have NEVER been expected to tow the line.).
With these two groups being handed diplomas at graduation, it essentially negates the diplomas actually EARNED by everyone else. Or have they been, I wonder how many actually were.
With this feelgood society that has been cultivated for years now, real earning and accomplishment has diminished to the point of barely existing. Giving kids good grades because a parent complains, or to keep parents from complaining, the bogus act of putting so many kids in bogus G/T or AP classes when they are, quite honestly, average students. Masking failure with 'everybody is a winner'.
My daughter has a friend who took a math test five times to raise her test score.
Really, what good are diplomas? Anybody can get one just for showing up for half the time.
I don't think the value of a diploma is diminished because some kids are too stupid enough to make the most of their educational experience. There are many students who do value the experience and put a great deal of time and energy into it. They challenge themselves, respect the teachers and what the teachers can teach them, and they hold themselves to higher standards. The diploma means a great deal to them and in that sense it is very valuable. To all the other stupid kids who don't put forth the genuine effort, they are the failure, and they will spend the rest of their lives paying for that mistake. IMO they are worthless not the diploma.
Frankly, unless you actually have a special needs student, you have NO idea how hard they may have to work, just to be in the school situation. You have no idea how hard their parents have worked to help them attempt these classes.
Frankly, you have no idea what my background is so you can save your judgement. My opinion is valid.
So you can make judgments but other posters can't. Sounds reasonable.
But then, that's not what this thread is about, now is it.
IMO, what used to be earned by working hard is handed to those who don't earn it now. Just showing up qualifies for a diploma, and those should be earned for them to be worth anything.
It used to be that if one didn't pass state required classes throughout high school (Specifically senior U.S. Government among other required classes) one didn't graduate. Period. It didn't matter who you were or what your problem was, if you didn't pass, you didn't graduate.
What is really disturbing, is the severely handicapped (those who are in school simply because it's a cheap way out of daycare, and those who go to mainstream classes who clearly don't do the work and take up space talking unsoliticiously during classtime and are generally a distraction.) receive diplomas while a young man who is a firefighter and a hardworking person goes through high school on his own merits but doesn't attain a diploma because he failed in expectations.
He didn't receive his diploma because he didn't earn it, but so many DID receive diplomas and they didn't do a darn thing besides get taken to school and dropped off to be babysat.
Last edited by NoExcuses; 07-04-2010 at 12:55 PM..
Really, what good are diplomas? Anybody can get one just for showing up for half the time.
They're fairly worthless. They're somewhat more worthwhile if your child is in an elite private school where they have real teachers who don't babysit kids and actually demand some real work to be done at some point. But they're still important, because they're the entrance ticket to college and beyond where your child gains more opportunity to actually positively differentiate themselves and position themselves for future success.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,757,602 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses
Our local high school had graduation ceremonies two weeks ago and my daughter and I were talking about the class and the value, or lack thereof, of a diploma.
In the class was a number of kids who went through school unable to communicate or learn academics at all, severely handicapped.
In the class was a number of kids who were moved through school in a special program because they were not capable of sitting in a normal classroom or participating in normal academic activities. Instead, they milled around and focused on behavior (Meaning THEY did pretty much what they wanted and the staff hired to watch them focused on the behavior.). That particular program starts in elementary school and carries through high school, which in itself is a puzzle (Those kids have NEVER been expected to tow the line.).
With these two groups being handed diplomas at graduation, it essentially negates the diplomas actually EARNED by everyone else. Or have they been, I wonder how many actually were.
With this feelgood society that has been cultivated for years now, real earning and accomplishment has diminished to the point of barely existing. Giving kids good grades because a parent complains, or to keep parents from complaining, the bogus act of putting so many kids in bogus G/T or AP classes when they are, quite honestly, average students. Masking failure with 'everybody is a winner'.
My daughter has a friend who took a math test five times to raise her test score.
Really, what good are diplomas? Anybody can get one just for showing up for half the time.
You are right. They pretty much give you a C just for showing up everyday. That is why you want your kids in AP or an IBP school if you can get them in. I took my daughter out of my local high school (Campbell in Cobb County GA) and put her in a much better school (McEachern) and she thrived there.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,757,602 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
They're fairly worthless. They're somewhat more worthwhile if your child is in an elite private school where they have real teachers who don't babysit kids and actually demand some real work to be done at some point. But they're still important, because they're the entrance ticket to college and beyond where your child gains more opportunity to actually positively differentiate themselves and position themselves for future success.
When I was in high school in the 70s, you had to write real reports and papers. And grammar and spelling counted. I wrote lab reports for Physics every week and at least 2 English Composition and English Literature papers a semester. And my Physics teacher was hell on wheels. He did not cut any slack to anybody. And the final was not "multiple guess". It was "fill in the blanks and do the math".
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