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Old 12-06-2010, 09:13 AM
 
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10 Things Charter Schools Won't Tell You - Spending - Rip-offs - SmartMoney.com
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
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Some I agree with and some I don't.

For example, the charter school I was in only pushed out kids who were the worst behavior cases and then not until after count day . People have this idea that charters keep only the best kids when they don't. They have to have good reason to expel a student.

Also, here, in Michigan, the certifications are the same whether you work in a charter school or a public school.

They do have high attrition rates, a disproportionate percentage of young and inexperienced teachers and they don't tell you where the money goes. They also won't tell you they are often for profit organizations with the owner, literally, owning the building and land and taking the profits from the school.
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:10 PM
 
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1. We're no better than public schools.
Some charter schools (17% according to the article) are better than local schools. Wouldn't you want your child in the better school? School quality is very individual and there are good charter, public, and private schools. I don't think status as a charter determines whether a school is good or not.

2. Our teachers aren’t certified.
You have to ask the school administration what their rules are. Honestly, I don't think certification makes you a good teacher. I have taught in schools with poor certified teachers and my kids have had the most fabulous uncertified teachers in the charter and private schools that they attend.

3. Plus, they keep quitting.
That's good. Teachers who do not want to be there should leave. Those who are not effective should be fired. My older son had a very ineffective teacher in his charter school. By the time my youngest got to that grade she was gone. IMO that's good.

4. Students with disabilities need not apply.
Not true around here. I think state laws vary on this point. Charter schools need to serve the general public much in the same way as public schools. If a child has an unusual disability the charter school may not be the best place for that child anyway. Children with unusual disabilities should be in schools where the adults have experience serving those type of needs.

5. Separation of church and state? We found a loophole.
Teaching Hebrew in school is not religious. Neither is teaching Arabic in school. In our area charter schools must be open to the general public except if they are run by municipalities. Then they can offer preference to residents of the municipality.


6. We don’t need to tell you where your tax dollars are going.
This is true but I can't believe charter schools are more corrupt than my county's school district.

7. We’ll do anything to recruit more kids…
This may be true in some schools. My kids went to a charter school with a long waiting list every year. There was no need to recruit heavily. However, there are charter schools that take out ads on buses and billboards and will do anything to recruit students.

8. …but we’ll push them out if they don’t perform.
Charter schools around here just can't kick you out because you aren't performing well. There is an accountability that is similar to what exists in regular public schools. Now-it is true that kids leave who do not do well with the additional academic rigor that exists in some charter schools. However, the school cannot just kick them out.

9. Success can be bought.
Very true. My kids attended a charter school in an affluent area. The school had additional funds available via parent fundraising. Additionally, the school was able to participate in many corporate partnerships that provided the school with money and equipment. I think that being in a community where the parents were able to fundraise, and the parents had contacts in the corporate world really helped the school raise the difference between what the school was given from the school district and what it needed.

10. Even great teachers can only do so much.
This is all true.
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,554,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
1. We're no better than public schools.
Some charter schools (17% according to the article) are better than local schools. Wouldn't you want your child in the better school? School quality is very individual and there are good charter, public, and private schools. I don't think status as a charter determines whether a school is good or not.
.
One flaw in this article is it doesn't recognize that charter schools often don't draw their students from city in which they reside. The charters in my city have, mainly, students from Detroit. They may not be better than the local schools my kids go to but they ARE better than the kids their students are coming from.
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:32 PM
 
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" Harlem Children’s Zone, for example, had over $193 million in net assets at the end of the 2008-2009 school year, according to its most recent IRS filing. The organization’s charter schools spend $12,443 per student in public money and an additional $3,482 that comes from private fundraising. That additional funding helps pay for 30% more time in class, according to Marty Lipp, spokesman for the organization."

If my less than stellar math skills are any indication, this means that the per pupil spending in the Harlem Children's Zone is only slightly less than what the very affluent town a bit from me spends. When will Sarah Morgan be writing outraged articles regarding this?
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,258 posts, read 22,853,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post


3. Plus, they keep quitting.
That's good. Teachers who do not want to be there should leave. Those who are not effective should be fired. My older son had a very ineffective teacher in his charter school. By the time my youngest got to that grade she was gone. IMO that's good.

But wouldn't it have gone much better if your son hadn't been subject to the bad teacher going through the 'test out a different career' phase? And in many areas, the traditional publics will gladly hire on charter school teachers who have gotten 2-3 good years of teaching in, and many of those teachers will gladly jump to traditional publics for better pay and contract stability.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
One flaw in this article is it doesn't recognize that charter schools often don't draw their students from city in which they reside. The charters in my city have, mainly, students from Detroit. They may not be better than the local schools my kids go to but they ARE better than the kids their students are coming from.
Additionally, if charters are located in a city with a range of public schools (as far as quality) sometimes the charter schools are only average with respect to the city, but much better than the schools those students WOULD have gone to. I don't think a charter school is automatically good, but there are some charter schools around here that are doing very very well.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:15 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,918,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
But wouldn't it have gone much better if your son hadn't been subject to the bad teacher going through the 'test out a different career' phase? And in many areas, the traditional publics will gladly hire on charter school teachers who have gotten 2-3 good years of teaching in, and many of those teachers will gladly jump to traditional publics for better pay and contract stability.
She wasn't in a test out a different career phase. She was just an ineffective teacher. As far as I know she is still teaching in a public school. The charter school got rid of her.

Charter schools get rid of the bad teachers. Public schools keep them forever. I am all for turnover among teachers when it gets rid of the ineffective ones.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:20 PM
 
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http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/National_Release.pdf

Quote:
Stanford, CA – A new report issued today by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes
(CREDO) at Stanford University found that there is a wide variance in the quality of the nation’s
several thousand charter schools with, in the aggregate, students in charter schools not faring as
well as students in traditional public schools
There is a link to download the full report. Frankly, the results charter schools have gotten is disappointing and uneven. Some are great. Most are average or less than average though.
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,554,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
But wouldn't it have gone much better if your son hadn't been subject to the bad teacher going through the 'test out a different career' phase? And in many areas, the traditional publics will gladly hire on charter school teachers who have gotten 2-3 good years of teaching in, and many of those teachers will gladly jump to traditional publics for better pay and contract stability.
It hasn't been this way here but it's changing. For a while there, you were tainted if you worked in a charter. Now districts are starting to see charters as weeding grounds. They'd rather hire a teacher with 2 years experience from a charter than someone with no experience.

Given the pay, benefit and retirement plan differences, you are correct. Teachers GLADLY jump to a public school but that's part of the charter plan to keep costs down. They don't expect to keep their teachers to stay. How can they when the pay in charters is so much lower than the pay in public schools and the benefits are horrible. My only retirement "plan" at the charter was what I put in my own 401K, which would have been fine if pay reflected the lack of benefits but it didn't.

Charters keep costs down by paying their teachers little, offering benefits not worth having and avoid paying in to the state pension fund by hiring their teachers through agencies (which means we are not considered state teachers. Right now, I'm in my 3rd year but treated like a 1st year teacher WRT mentoring and training because my charter experience doesn't count). The only thing that saves them here is that there is such a glut of teachers that they get good teachers to choose from. If that glut dries up, you'll only see teachers who can't find better jobs in the charters. Fortunately, for both the charters and their kids, the glut of teachers is predicted to continue.
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