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Old 05-11-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,920 posts, read 4,323,281 times
Reputation: 1300

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There is a bill in the PA House to not only publish the NCLB state PSSA test scores as they do now, but to publish them by class, and with the teacher's name.

I can see the importance of accountability, but the only other thing like this I know of is when they publish the names of criminal offenders in the newspaper. Establishing performance of educators solely on the basis on one spring test, without looking at all the other data that can influence performance of real human beings rather than a product is crazy.

Name one other occupation anywhere where the performance ratings on one narrow part of their job is published in the newspaper.

This will put another nail into the coffin of public education, and assure the fact that we will have a very very very serious teacher shortage in about 8 years. There is a very good chance that this measure will pass.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,610 posts, read 47,726,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

Name one other occupation anywhere where the performance ratings on one narrow part of their job is published in the newspaper.
Hockey goalie?
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,920 posts, read 4,323,281 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
Hockey goalie?
Notice that I said one narrow portion of their job. A hockey goalie's ONLY JOB is to prevent pucks from going into the net. And if I remember correctly his stats are from all season, not just one or two days in the late part of the season.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,548,114 times
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That will only drive teachers to be more picky in what schools they want to teach in.

If you were going to be held accountable for the scores of your class would you pick a middle class suburban school or an inner city school ?

To blame the teachers for bad scores is past the point of simple logic.
This will just drive the divide further..the best and good teachers may shun inner city schools.

It's more than teachers. NCLB requires every teacher be "highly qualified" and yet they still blame the teachers.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,244,899 times
Reputation: 7812
Maybe all those TFA folks and alternative certified people will jump right into the classroom and show us how it is done? After all, the real teachers will either leave while the getting is good, or be fired because their students cannot pass a standardized test.
Should all this accountability fall on teachers--will a teacher who is dismissed for not having the acceptable percentage of their students pass the test ever find another job?
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,610 posts, read 47,726,078 times
Reputation: 48341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Notice that I said one narrow portion of their job. A hockey goalie's ONLY JOB is to prevent pucks from going into the net. And if I remember correctly his stats are from all season, not just one or two days in the late part of the season.

yeah, yeah... just tryin' to crack a joke.
Sorry.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:21 PM
 
2,596 posts, read 5,584,654 times
Reputation: 3996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
There is a bill in the PA House to not only publish the NCLB state PSSA test scores as they do now, but to publish them by class, and with the teacher's name.

I can see the importance of accountability, but the only other thing like this I know of is when they publish the names of criminal offenders in the newspaper. Establishing performance of educators solely on the basis on one spring test, without looking at all the other data that can influence performance of real human beings rather than a product is crazy.

Name one other occupation anywhere where the performance ratings on one narrow part of their job is published in the newspaper.

This will put another nail into the coffin of public education, and assure the fact that we will have a very very very serious teacher shortage in about 8 years. There is a very good chance that this measure will pass.
I'm pretty sure their purpose is to try to shame the teachers with low scoring classes and puff up the teachers with high scoring classes. If you've never taught school and have no idea how the system works, I can see why this would seem like a good idea. What it will actually accomplish is to create even MORE incentive for teachers to escape the failing schools. Even if politicians turn a blind eye to the issue, it's no secret where the "difficult" schools are, and it's no secret that if you go to a wealthy suburban school district, you're going to have better students and better results.

Already we face the problem that it's hard to recruit the best teachers to go to undesirable schools and even harder to retain them. Most of the time, the teachers who get stuck teaching on those difficult schools with underprivileged students are the younger teachers. A few stay. A few older teachers choose to get down there in the trenches. But the majority only stay until they can get a job at a school in a more desirable area--then they get out of there as fast as they can.

With all the talk of paying teachers a bonus to teach in undesirable schools as a recruiting tool to get stronger and more experienced teachers, this measure would encourage exactly the opposite. Why would I want to work harder with more difficult students for the same pay, when as a reward for doing the dirty work no one wanted to try to get these kids up to where they should be, I will have my name published in the paper in an attempt to shame me? Are these lawmakers really naive enough to think that a student born to wealthy parents in a suburban school is on even footing with a student living in poverty with no parental support in an inner city school? This idea is as ridiculous as taking money away from schools that perform poorly on tests. Obviously those schools need MORE help, not less!
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,563,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Maybe all those TFA folks and alternative certified people will jump right into the classroom and show us how it is done? After all, the real teachers will either leave while the getting is good, or be fired because their students cannot pass a standardized test.
Should all this accountability fall on teachers--will a teacher who is dismissed for not having the acceptable percentage of their students pass the test ever find another job?
Nah...I'm leaving with the teachers if they start publishing test scores as if they can be attributed to one teacher.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,244,899 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Nah...I'm leaving with the teachers if they start publishing test scores as if they can be attributed to one teacher.
2013..that is my exit date. Possibly sooner if the governor tightens the screws anymore...The state has my students (50-70 FSIQ) taking standardized tests this year...
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,920 posts, read 4,323,281 times
Reputation: 1300
Default How to treat teachers like criminals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Nah...I'm leaving with the teachers if they start publishing test scores as if they can be attributed to one teacher.
Doing this is called CRIMINALIZING TEACHERS. The only other group of people who have their names published in the newspapers associated with some performance on their part are criminals.

And, do you honestly think that teachers who have the best scores want to have their names posted? Do you know what relationships are like in any school when one or two teachers are held up as some kind of special deal compared to everyone else? These teachers are suddenly ignored and treated like crap by the majority.
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