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I've heard the above before, probably here on CD. Please explain how this relates to the tax system.
Are analogies really so hard for the modern American to understand? When a person works hard to earn something, it should NOT be taken from him simply because others weren't willing to work so hard and sacrifice so much.
Given a hard-studying student a "C" at the end of the year so that the credits can be transferred to poor students to keep them from failing, is EXACTLY the same as confiscating 20% or 30% of a worker's earnings and giving them to those who won't or can't work. And it certainly has the same disincentive effect, as the harder a person works in America, the more government takes away.
Are analogies really so hard for the modern American to understand? When a person works hard to earn something, it should NOT be taken from him simply because others weren't willing to work so hard and sacrifice so much.
Given a hard-studying student a "C" at the end of the year so that the credits can be transferred to poor students to keep them from failing, is EXACTLY the same as confiscating 20% or 30% of a worker's earnings and giving them to those who won't or can't work. And it certainly has the same disincentive effect, as the harder a person works in America, the more government takes away.
Analogy fail! (Like most of them) Do you think we should pay no taxes at all?
How about an analogy where you have two families, both hard working. The first family made it big in the .com industry and spend their time investing their money etc. The other set of parents were not able to go to college and work at jobs that pay $10 an hour. They can barely afford to pay their rent and must rely on food stamps to stretch their dollars. Should the first family be required to pay a miniscule amount more so that family two can have enough food to last the whole month? The people that Obama is talking about taxing at a higher amount are an extremely low percentage of the population. It's not a hand out, it's a hand up.... I'm all for teaching our children about math and compassion.
I very much agree with the position that brave people fought and died for our right to vote. I believe that not only is it a right, but it's the responsibility of every adult to educate themselves and vote. I also think that mock elections can be fun and much more educational then just reading about them.
When was the last time a US soldier died for an American's right to vote?
You can believe whatever you want about responsibility to vote but despite what you've been trained to think, it is perfectly legal not to vote and it is perfectly legal to ignore the issues and not vote.
Parents out there, if your kid is a hard-working student, you might want to ask him this: Does he want to take the "A" he earned by studying hard all week, and reduce it to a "C" so that two kids in his class that didn't study at all could be saved from getting F's? How about working hard all year to earn an A, only to have his academic points removed and given to those who never spent an hour studying? Then, take it further and propose there were even MORE kids added to his class--kids he never met and doesn't know--that didn't study at all, and he would have to get a "D" after working hard all year to academically "subsidize" all of them? Just how much incentive would he have to study under these circumstances?
This is how our tax system works; make no mistake.
How does this analogy account for the students that sit back, do nothing, and inherit an "A" because of who their father is?
How does this analogy account for the students that sit back, do nothing, and inherit an "A" because of who their father is?
That would be those who are like me and don't have to work hard to get an "A." Just because I, and others, didn't have to work hard for it doesn't mean someone else is entitled to it.
Our family is very politically aware, so we have been discussing politics with the kids for many years. The hardest part is giving impartial information in the quest to help them develop their own opinions.
Our kid's school is decidedly partisan in its imparting of political knowledge, so it's important for us to do a bit of damage control, but also try to find impartial information for them.
My 12 year-old watches the debates with us, it's quite enlightening hearing his take. Your son is a bit young though.
You know, I think the links above are a much better resource for parents and kids if you really want to teach your kids to learn about the candidates, the issures and elections in general. Our analogies are probably not really half as clear as something like this from this link Election 2012: Health Care | TIME For Kids
Quote:
President Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act into law March 23, 2010. It states that all Americans must have health insurance or else pay a penalty beginning in 2014. Supporters say the law will help make health insurance affordable for everyone. Critics say the law will cost insurance companies money and will raise health care costs.
I don't really consider healthcare to be dessert. To me, it's more like the fruits and vegetables. There have always been times in our family where we put off medical care because we couldn't afford the co-pays. Still do, as a matter of fact.
Tell your children that some children's parents don't buy them fruits and vegetables to eat at home, so Obama wants to make sure that they can get some at school. At my school, the kids nearly always eat the fresh fruit. It never goes in the trash, as other children will take it home to their families where the parents don't buy any. Most of the students eat lunch every day, and it's good to see that they are getting healthier meals than in the past.
Some things, though, are sorely missed--mainly the heavenly yeast rolls that would make your mouth water all morning as they cooked. You would always get to the lunchroom with an appetite! The kids might not always like what they are served, but most of them are hungry enough to eat it anyway, just as they did when the meal included fried steak fingers or mystery meat and powdered mashed potatoes.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
Exactly! There is also the point that some kids DO like vegetables. Another take-home point is that perhaps everyone should try the veggies and they may find they like them after all.
I think the OP did his son a disservice by comparing the vegetable offering lunch to Obama and one w/o veggies to Romney.
Again, the analogy was not about "healthcare" or "school lunch mandates"; the analogy was supposed to be about the basic differences in the concept of the role of the government. You are all either far too literal in how you are taking it or simply offended that the "concept" was perceived as a negative for the person you are supporting.
Saying Obama wants to make sure kids have healthy vegetables and healthcare is something no one would argue with, it's the concept and reality of doing it that is the debatable part. All of the "optional" ways I have been given to phrase it are more straight forward and simplistic, but they also aren't neutral and don't embody the greater "question" behind doing it.
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Originally Posted by Cinebar
WOW! Way to lie to your kid!
Good job, Dad!
Really, I lied? Again, it seems some people are incapable of grasping the concept of an analogy, especially when it hints that it might not be a positive statement of the candidate a person supports. I don't feel that I "lied" to my child given what the analogy was actually about at its most basic and he "got" what I was getting at; which is essentially a question of the basic fundamental role of government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
Well I guess I speak even to second graders honestly and directly. I probably would not use an analogy that fails to capture reality if I could not come up with one that did. Instead I would go directly to the matter at hand. By second grade, kids have a bank account. They understand money. That have seen their parent(s) working...
While they would not understand trickle down, they would understand the idea if explained. And would understand the idea of investment.
But using a failed analogy is just confusing.
I do agree that it may not have been the best way to go. He did "get" the concept I was getting at and it is a concept I am more then equipped and capable of defending if people want to call me out on it. I tried to purposefully avoid money because that would end up being even more slanted...
DS you earn $10 a week for doing chores. Of the other 14 kids in your class, 10 earn $5 and 4 earn $1. You each have to pay "taxes" to your teacher to keep the classroom running. Since you earn the most, you have to give $4, which leaves you with $6 to spend. The 10 kids who earn $5 each pay $1.50 and they are left with $3.50 to spend. The 4 kids who only earn $1 don't pay any "taxes" and they are each given an extra .25 cents out of the class budget to help them out, so they have $1.25 to spend.
The cost of running your classroom has gone up and now there isn't enough money to pay for everything. Right now your teacher is "borrowing" $1 from another classroom to help cover the expenses. Obama thinks that since you have the most money you can afford to pay an extra $1 to help out. Romney thinks we should stop giving .25 cents to the 4 "poorest" kids because we can't afford to do it without borrowing money.
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Originally Posted by toobusytoday
You know, I think the links above are a much better resource for parents and kids if you really want to teach your kids to learn about the candidates, the issures and elections in general. Our analogies are probably not really half as clear as something like this from this link Election 2012: Health Care | TIME For Kids
I like the links and they are good resources, though they still require a bit of explanation as they are neutral to the point of being very simplistic and offer none of the reasoning why one side feels the way it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog
Are analogies really so hard for the modern American to understand? When a person works hard to earn something, it should NOT be taken from him simply because others weren't willing to work so hard and sacrifice so much.
Given a hard-studying student a "C" at the end of the year so that the credits can be transferred to poor students to keep them from failing, is EXACTLY the same as confiscating 20% or 30% of a worker's earnings and giving them to those who won't or can't work. And it certainly has the same disincentive effect, as the harder a person works in America, the more government takes away.
I agree, I don't see why the analogies are so hard to understand. The only counter-analogies offered are very simplistic that don't do anything to really address the root questions and concepts.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
Analogy fail! (Like most of them) Do you think we should pay no taxes at all?
Well, then use the one I just posted above, much more "to the point".
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Originally Posted by Clevelander17
How does this analogy account for the students that sit back, do nothing, and inherit an "A" because of who their father is?
That's covered under estate taxes. Obama thinks the inherited A should only be a B and then when it gets passed down again it should only be a C, etc. Romney thinks that if a family has earned an A they deserve to be able to hand it down to their children.
It was interesting seeing whether or not my son thought everyone in town should pay an extra $24 a year so that the school could add some additional programs and technology. He didn't think the new programs were very interesting and the technology was expanding the student laptop program to 4th and 5th graders. Since he wasn't in 4th grade and he wouldn't be getting a computer, he didn't think we should say yes.
That's the most insightful look into politics of anything in this thread.
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