Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-29-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: New York NY
5,518 posts, read 8,765,046 times
Reputation: 12707

Advertisements

I see this word "rigorous" bandied about endlessly, both here in my neck of the worrds as well as in much of the popular and national writing about education. Eveyone thinks a rigorous education is good, but no one, to my satisfaction had ever really defined it.

At least in NYC all it means is that a kid (we're talking K-12 here) gets a ton of reading and lots of homework and projects. In other words, rigorous="worked to death", with no real thought to any deeper meaning and no different that what you'd find in a less rigorous school, just more of it.

It's a word that has lost all value as far as I'm concerned. But I want to hear what others think. To parents, educators and students out there, what's you defintion of a "rigorous" education and what does it look like in practice?
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-29-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Illinois
10,364 posts, read 20,791,358 times
Reputation: 15643
Eh it's a feel-good buzzword of the times, so that parents will leave us alone about stuff. I can't think of any 9-12 graders in our school who know their multiplication facts at all. A teacher popped out with "What's 5x8?" today and none of her honor students could answer it, not even after a little bit of thought. One girl thought it was 144! I'm proud to say that my homeschooled daughters know them very well and can count change back correctly. Plus a few other things they don't teach in schools anymore, and I didn't think our curriculum was rigorous at all.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,711,762 times
Reputation: 9829
I agree that many equate rigorous with a lot of written work.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 04:09 PM
 
2,042 posts, read 2,903,494 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
I see this word "rigorous" bandied about endlessly, both here in my neck of the worrds as well as in much of the popular and national writing about education. Eveyone thinks a rigorous education is good, but no one, to my satisfaction had ever really defined it.

At least in NYC all it means is that a kid (we're talking K-12 here) gets a ton of reading and lots of homework and projects. In other words, rigorous="worked to death", with no real thought to any deeper meaning and no different that what you'd find in a less rigorous school, just more of it.

It's a word that has lost all value as far as I'm concerned. But I want to hear what others think. To parents, educators and students out there, what's you defintion of a "rigorous" education and what does it look like in practice?
Good question.
Rigorous education, to me, is that which encourages students to be challenged intellectually, or learning within what Vygotsky called the 'zone of proximal development'. In other words, rigor in education means that students are studying and problem-solving at a level just beyond what the student can do by themselves (in other words, with the aid of a capable educator). Over time, what once was possible with the aid of a capable educator will become possible for students to do without that aid. This means that the zone moves upwards...in other words, they have learned that material. This does not mean, of course, giving high-level calculus homework to a nine year-old (well not most nine year-olds anyway).

It is my estimation that most students in public schools are studying material below their zone of proximal development, due to the facts that 1) Each student has a different 'zone', therefore it is difficult to ensure that all students are challenged in such a way (class sizes are too large; curriculum not flexible enough; standardized tests are the goal); and 2) Due to the previous point, it is better to 'dumb-down' (not an ideal choice of terms, but you understand what I mean) classwork in order to give all the students a chance to learn the material, and to ensure that students have enough 'knowledge' to pass the ubiquitous high-stakes tests.

In more rigorous schools, generally, students are challenged within their zones; in less rigorous schools, they are not (students can do much of the work unaided...then are they really learning?). There are also many instances in which students are expected to do work which is out of their zones, which is just as fruitless.

So, to answer your question: A rigorous education would mean one in which students' zones are ascertained and then given tasks which challenge them to the point that they would need a capable adult to guide them; once they no longer need this guidance or assistance, they have learned that material. They then move onward as their zone expands. As you can see by my simple definition, this situation is not very likely in most public schools for a host of reasons, some of which I have already mentioned.

Rigorous education does not mean that students have tons of homework. As you've already pointed out, hours of busy work isn't necessarily rigor, it has more to do with student time management skills, student work ethic, and ensuring that teachers have something to read on weekends :-D
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 04:15 PM
 
366 posts, read 730,514 times
Reputation: 528
I've always thought of it to mean that it's challenging to you, the student. If I know the student, I know how academically sound or how academically challenged they are. If I don't know the student I take it with a grain of salt. If it's rigorous to them, it's a challenge, and perhaps they're in over their head.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 05:46 PM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,513,664 times
Reputation: 8103
In college application talk, a rigorous course load means the hardest courses offered for each subject. When a counselor fills out the requisite paperwork for a students recommendation there will be a box for them to check off asking if the student took the most rigorous classes. That's something that many students strive for. Generally that also means honors and AP/IB classes or sometimes dual credit.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 05:52 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,502,653 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
Good question.
Rigorous education, to me, is that which encourages students to be challenged intellectually, or learning within what Vygotsky called the 'zone of proximal development'.
Sheldon Cooper, is that you?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 05:53 PM
 
126 posts, read 429,423 times
Reputation: 200
Ask an asian kid.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 06:14 PM
 
2,042 posts, read 2,903,494 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Sheldon Cooper, is that you?
Sorry, I don't know who that is!
I don't have TV, if he's someone on there. (I'm so pop-culturally deficient!)

(Ok, I googled it. Still don't know who he is, though!)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 06:19 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,796,460 times
Reputation: 5478
Well, if one writes...

"What is a "rigorous" education really mean?"

One did not have one.

Last edited by lvoc; 11-29-2012 at 06:32 PM..
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top